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tom — August 7, 2007
i will say this
I have just really started getting alot of unwanted thoughts and emotions that i try and try to get out of my head but they will not. Like you say the more attention i give them the worse they get
The one thing that really keeps me in touch is knowing that “I” am not having these thoughts
“I” would never do or say any of the thoughts
They are just thought loops i can not get out of.
For me it is a fear of the unknown, dieing, and just quetioning reality that i cannot get rid of
I have meditated many times and i will keep at it
This is a test in life and i am going to get an A
Gina Shaw — August 12, 2007
Hi Mike,
I like this article. I’m into affirmations and have found that when I get a little compulsive about things, as we all do from time to time, if I keep doing afirmations like ‘I am free from all obsessions and compulsions’ or ‘I am free of obsessive behaviour’ really works!
Warm wishes,
Gina
danny — August 12, 2007
i watched the film 24 days later, i was and still am a bit scared about the fact that it could happen my mates said it could and it made me worse, i could’nt sleep endless night and the shadow of a threat was growing in my mind, i did’nt feal safe anywhere i went even if it was a fair with hundreds of people, i listened more, watched more and asked my parents for reashorence, they kept and still keep telling me its not real, but it only helps a bit, i ve got to sort it out, in my heart i know that it cant happen but in my mind its telling me it is and its looking at all aspects of possibility, im scared, and im still really young.
Mike Kinnaird — August 12, 2007
Hi Danny,
It’s a really really bad idea to watch horror when you’re young. Your mind will experience a movie like that as if it were almost real. The younger the mind the more it experiences it as real. But anyway, the damage is done — what to do?
I can tell you that this will won’t go on long but I would would suggest keeping your mind of it as much as possible. When you remember the film, shrug it off, tell yourself it’s just the movies then substitute the happiest thought you can — maybe remember a time you felt really really safe.
Be patient, it will go away… keep your mind off it. Please please stop watching horror movies.
I don’t even watch horror or even much news which to me is even more horrific than the movies and presents a completely distorted view of reality.
In truth, most people are kind, caring people and the few that aren’t would be if they knew how.
Email me if you want to talk it through (use the contact us form in the menu bar)
Take care and good luck.
Mike.
Mike Kinnaird — August 12, 2007
Hi Tom,
“I have meditated many times and i will keep at it.”
I found meditation to be an amazing process. I remember a story, might of been in “The Power of Now”, not sure, where this girl was driven crazy by all this anxiety and mental noise.
Then one day she sat by the river and just spontaneously started really really noticing the present moment… the sound of the river, a flower, birds and so on.
It was almost as if the internal noise had got so unbearable it almost forced her into the present moment. And all that internal noise went away in an instant. Point is we can just choose a different focus. We can do that.
Don’t know why I’m telling you this really, I just remembered it when I read your comment.
Hope you get that A :-) Meditation sure will inject a whole load of sanity into your life.
Mike.
danny — August 12, 2007
thanks mike i feal better, im acctualy 14. so dose that mean that it will definetly go away and that my mind is more imaginative becaus im that young?
Mike Kinnaird — August 12, 2007
It will go away for sure be patient and see the fear for what it is… your mind thinks there is really something to fear but YOU know it was only a movie RIGHT?
Listen Danny, I know 10 year old kids who are scared of everything because they watch all this horror that has 18 on it. Believe me that isn’t cool. It’s 18 for a reason and to be honest I hate to think of what’s going on in the heads of the people who make all this trash.
Do yourself a big big favor and be very careful what you feed into your mind.
Yes, at 14 you are less able to discriminate between real and movie but I tell you, even adults will be affected in some way by what they watch.
Btw, your mates are trying to wind you up. If they see you’re scared they’ll probably think that’s hilarious. Oh the joys of being 14 eh?
Take care
Mike
cg — August 17, 2007
I think meditation is the BEST thing a person can do–so helpful. Thank you for mentioning that in here.
Tom16 — September 1, 2007
Hi. My name’s Tom too so I’ve put my age next to my name to avoid confusion :)
I read about Danny’s problem and I can relate completely. Only my problem is I’ve read some really, *really* graphic content about things that have actually happened. It’s driving me crazy. Not literally I hope lol.
I won’t say what the stuff was about specifically because it doesn’t really need mentioning. It’s nothing embarassing or anything, just extremely disturbing. Evil, actually.
A thought that keeps coming into my head is the possibility that I myself could go on to do those things. I know I can’t possibly immitate any of it and I wouldn’t try to anyway! But logic doesn’t seem to be changing my mindset.
And of course the fact that the material was very real doesn’t do me any favours. It just makes the image stronger. I know it will all probably go at some point but I’d like to get to that point as fast as possible.
I know 16 isn’t really a mature age anyway. But this stuff was for public viewing! Well I don’t know who’s brainstorm that was but I’m seriously considering trying to get it removed.
Thanks and best wishes
Tom (the other one)
Mike Kinnaird — September 2, 2007
Hi Tom16
Are you saying that anyone can see this stuff — even young children? I hope you do try to get it removed.
It’s quite sad to me that children’s innocence is taken away by all this sick stuff. I do believe it has wide ranging damaging effects on individuals and societies.
I understand how your mind has now new possibilities that it’s exploring now you’ve seen this stuff and that is very very sad indeed.
Although you might well be conscious enough to see these thoughts for what they are, what about others? There will be some who do end up acting this stuff out or becoming so fascinated that that get deeply into it.
It’s all very disturbing.
There’s great beauty in a child’s innocence.
Exposure to disturbing and ‘evil’ elements is NOT a requirement for the development of a child.
Tom, I have a mental trick for thoughts and feelings I don’t want inside me. I imagine wrapping them in sheets of white, thin fine silk–and just keep wrapping until I can’t feel them or be aware of them anymore. It really works.
Then you can imagine that cocoon of silk with the bad stuff inside exploding in a billion tiny pieces that get scattered far into the universe.
Try it — it works :-)
Oh and one last thought. A clever guy once said “The worst things in my life never happened.” Think it might be Mark Twain. Definately a good idea to not imagine bad stuff and have these mental movies going on in your head.
Take care Tom16 and thanks for writing.
Mike.
myself — April 29, 2008
hi mike, i m from india. i m also facing the same prob. i read all wat u said, but thing which i read will not last long much in my mind, after few days i will forget them and again face the same problem.
can u explain ur solution part in a better way.
Mike Kinnaird — April 29, 2008
Hi “myself”
I don’t know your specific problem so I’ll just talk about the case I mentioned in the article.
If the information lasts a few days I think that’s great! I suggest re-reading to remind yourself every few days til you “own it”
In my friends case, there are 2 components to his problem.
1. Belief that the unwanted thoughts serve him and warn of real danger.
2. Inability to choose the focus of attention.
1. If your fear is irrational, it means you need to use reason to fully understand how and why it’s irrational which will open the door to you being able to let go of it. For this you need to talk to others… friends, close family, trusted advisors etc until you understand that your fear is irrational. This is the easiest bit :-)
2. You need to choose the focus of your attention. To remove unwanted thoughts you need to consistently redirect your attention away from the thoughts you don’t want. You cannot fight them or stop them arising. It’s simply a matter of letting them come and go but not empowering them with your attention.
The single most powerful technique to teach you to do this is meditation. Do a little research and find a simple method that appeals to you. The method is not the important thing. Practice for 30 minutes every day and you’ll rapidly begin to untangle you sense of ‘I’ from thought, and you’ll be able to gain power over your attention. Attention is everything.
I can’t say it much better than that :-) If you give me some more details of your problem, I may be able to add some other ideas.
Thanks for your question and good luck! Let me know if I can help you further,
Mike.
myself — May 2, 2008
Hi Mike,
Thanks a lot.
I like ur 2nd point.
“To remove unwanted thoughts you need to consistently redirect your attention away from the thoughts you don’t want. You cannot fight them or stop them arising. It’s simply a matter of letting them come and go but not empowering them with your attention.”
I immmediately able to do dat,
Bcoz of this, these thoughts does not affect me that much now.
but i always get scared,may be some other new -ve thoughts come to my mind, basically my heart become weaker by all these -ve thougths. coz mind continously try to think some other new -ve thought which can affect me and i also think very deeply abt any matter,which is also affecting me.
when these thoughts try to affect me,one more thing i do .I start counting table of 19,since i found it diffcult.
I m also reading books Like “Art of living”
But now i m quite normal by those of u r line which i mentioned above.
and as far as meditation is concern ,i used to concentrate on breathing in the morning for 25-30 min.
I found this Article, Great!!!!!!!!
Its Really Nice,can i have u r Email Id?.
Warm Wishes,
Myself
Mike Kinnaird — May 2, 2008
Hi “Myself”
So glad you were able to get immediate relief. It’s a powerful process for sure.
Regarding the fear of further negative thoughts…
This is just another thought-feeling in disguise. It’s not “you” either, just as the other unwanted thoughts aren’t you.
So the same technique applies. Don’t empower it with your attention but don’t fight it either.
Fighting it is just more attention.
I hope you keep up the meditation. It’s a wonderful thing :-)
Yes, I’ll write to you so you’ll have my email ID, it’s not a secret but we can’t put it on the web because of the spam bots! Grrr :-)
Mike.
Mike Kinnaird — May 2, 2008
P.S. I LOVE your 19 times table idea!! Can I use it for my eBook?! :-)
I usually advise just redirecting attention to something in the present moment say… birds chirping.
But powerful thought-feelings do need a powerful solution. Some find a mantra is great… or 19 times table!
Good stuff,
Mike.
Drew — May 5, 2008
Hi Mike:
Just stumbled upon your web site recently. Great site! I just had a quick question re your article on getting rid of unwanted thoughts. I too have thoughts like those, and have tried all sorts of things eg, herbs, etc, all to no avail UNTIL I recently started meditating. It really seems to be helping. What I was wondering is 1) how long and how often and 2) what type? I’m told putting a plug in your right nostril (Khalsa Yoga meditation) works better for OCD as the left nostril feeds the right side of the brain, where emotions and anxiety, etc are rooted.
Any thoughts?
Thx
Mike Kinnaird — May 6, 2008
Hi Drew!
1) 30 minutes a day works wonders. If you’re super keen, do 2 sessions a day for example, one in the morning, one in the evening — dawn and dusk are optimal times.
2) The method is not the important thing — which is that you have a focus and that you are aware of what that focus is. Having said that, I seem to get the best results with passage meditation. This is slowly saying an inspirational spiritual passage mentally.
This is great for keeping track of “where you are” because as you know, it’s all to easy to get lost in thought.
3) I wouldn’t plug any nostrils. The meditation is the thing with the greatest power. Alternate nostril breathing is a great thing to do though to create balance. You could do some pranayama for five minutes as a prelim to the meditation.
If you have time, asana, pranayama, meditation is a great sequence!
Let me know how you get on or if you need any more help.
Mike.
Drew — May 6, 2008
Hi Mike:
Thanks for getting back to me. I’ll try and do two sessions as you suggest, plus read your Habit Guide e-book which I just purchased. I’ll also try passage meditation and see if that helps as well.
Thanks again, and I’ll let you know what I think of your book!
Drew
weight loss program — June 7, 2008
Very good post. So much of our lives are governed by the way we think. Brian Tracy says that “we are what we think about most of the time”. This is based on the law of correspondance, which means our outer world is a reflection of our inner world. Once again.. great post!!
mimi — June 14, 2008
Hi Mike,
I have lived with a in-law family member for 5 years now and my thoughts of this person are driving me insane. I try extremely hard to keep my peace, not saying anything, and trying to make my thoughts leave so I dont say anything horrible and it is eating me alive. What do you suggest I do when those thoughts hound me? If your answer is meditation, what do I try to focus on?
Mike Kinnaird — June 14, 2008
Hi Mimi,
I suggest you don’t empower them with more attention. Simply observe what’s happening and be curious about it. This will instantly seperate “you” from the thoughts and emotions and help you to let them go.
It’s tough, and there’s no easy solution, but there is a simple solution and that is meditation. The ONLY solution to any ego related problem is to go higher–become more conscious.
A very valuable thing to do in these kinds of situations is to spend some time thinking compassionate thoughts about the person who you perceive to be hurting you.
That may sound crazy but until you change the inner situation, the outer won’t change. I’ve used this technique myself and it does transform if you do it well. Perhaps start by imagining your in-law as an innocent baby, totally dependant on the world for support and then imagine the forces that could have shaped them into what they are today.
If you can put yourself in a compassionate attitude towards the person that is hurting you, I believe this will totally transform your relationship. Of course, not easy, but if you can do it, you will grow tremendously from the experience. This is about your personal power and freedom.
The Buddha said “He was angry with me, he attacked me, he defeated me, he robbed me–those who do not dwell on such thoughts will surely become free from hatred.”
Apart from meditating on compassion for the person, I would say give no attention to the situation until a thought or feeling arises. Then simply observe it with curiosity, substitute your compassionate feelings and let it go.
I think what you’re already doing is right–biting your tongue–as tough as it is to do. Any “input” or influence should be done in a calm state of mind. In Kabbalah, this resisting of reactionary forces is the key to generating spiritual light.
In my experience, resisting a reactionary response becomes easier the more you do it.
I would recommend sit down practice of meditation to everybody. Mindfulness and the techniques I’ve talked about here will be difficult to apply without the precious understanding that meditation gives.
Thanks for your question… it’s helped me to clarify something in my own mind. My heart goes out to you and I wish you luck with this–I’ve been through exactly the same thing myself and I know how painful it can be.
Keep in touch and let me know how you get on,
Mike.
ana montez — June 17, 2008
I found some understanding at last i thought I was the only weird one but it seems to be happening to others.I go to church pray when i get this bad thought and fear that seems to come out of no where.I will not get consumed by them I will arise from all this and be a motivational speaker some day to help others that feel traped.I will start mediation and see how it goes i have the power to overcome these thoughts.
Mimi — June 18, 2008
Hey Mike,
Thank you for your response.The part I liked the most and which I think will be most helpful to me is to think compassionate thoughts and to remember how life has shaped them. I wish I could tell you how this person really is but that would be dis-honorable. Thank you for your advice. It’s hard for me to remember that I’m only responsible for my actions and I cant make them or be responsible for what ever they choose or choose not to do. Anyway, Thank you for listening to me.Do you have any advice on feeling suspicious and not trusting someone? That hinders my compassionate feelings a little and my way of interacting with them. How do you try to like someone or (act like)you like someone if you dont trust them?
Sincerely, Mimi
Mike Kinnaird — June 20, 2008
Hi Mimi,
You’re not going to change your feelings for this person instantly but if you keep dwelling on compassion for the person, it will put you in a place where the quality of your words and actions towards them are different.
Someone can be untrustworthy without making it into a personal problem–it’s just information. If they can’t be trusted or you suspect so, that’s the way it is. You don’t need to pretend they can be trusted or anything.
I know many people who are closed off and somewhat devious. We all try to “get our own way” and devious people think that their way is a good way. Their world view is “it’s me against the world, I have to protect myself from the world and people that will try to hurt me.” That kind of behavior is learned from life experience.
I would give up your mental plans of action and focus on meditation and compassion. As the inner you shifts, then so will the quality of your interaction with the world. You cannot try to love your neighbor intellectually. That kind of trying is ego based. You have to let go of your own ego then love for your neighbor becomes a natural expression of who you are.
If someone is pushing your buttons–well they’re your buttons to get rid of. Ultimately, to be who we truly are, we have to give up our “idea of ourselves.”
Trying to like a person or pretending to like them may be the most appropriate thing to do. Perhaps you understand the consequences of a different course of action.
By the way, I’m not a believer in the idea that we have to put up with all kinds of behavior. But from what you’ve said, it seems that for now, this is a situation you can’t get out of.
When negative feelings come up in you, substitute compassionate ones–see what happens :-) Good luck, I know it’s tough.
Mike.
Mike Kinnaird — June 20, 2008
Hi ana,
It’s funny… when I was younger I thought everyone was doing great except me! As I got older, folks started opening up to me and telling me their deepest secrets I realized we’re all a bit “weird” in our own way. I love your positive attitude. I hope you get to do that motivational speaking one day soon.
Good luck!
Mike.
chloe — July 9, 2008
hi i have scary thoughts that i might get exercisom
write me back i beg u i cant keep my mind off it and i cant think of other things so plz help me i do need help not mentely physicly
thnx
Mike Kinnaird — July 10, 2008
Hi Chloe,
I’ve emailed you privately about your problem.
Mike.
chloe — July 10, 2008
i just wanted to say u r the best
Mike Kinnaird — July 10, 2008
Thank you Chloe! :-) Good luck. Write any time.
sara — July 31, 2008
hello,
I’m asking on behalf of my boyfriend, he has always issues where he puts himself down and has loss issues.
Since we started dating he’s said I’m his light and I always make him feel better about himself, But lately self esteem issues have gotten worse. He worries all the time about every one around me, and has started to build up hatred for going out in public. I’m really starting to worry about him.
We have a long distance relationship and I know once we bridge the gap he will either get better or worse.
I need all the help I can get.
Please help,
Sara
Mike Kinnaird — August 1, 2008
Hi Sara,
As strange as it may seem, self esteem and loss issues are not seperate from what your boyfriend eats, whether he exercises and his sleep habits — as well as a lot of other lifestyle issues. When life throws in a curve ball, we need to be ready. We cope the best when we’re in tip top shape mentally and physically.
The resolution of his problem is lifestyle and habits — along with some specifics to re-direct unhelpful repetitive thought patterns.
As I said in the article, meditation is the ultimate freedom because it untangles the sense of I from thought itself. Once there is this precious distance, one can look at thoughts with a discerning view and say yes or no. It’s about attention, and being the master of our attention.
You may indeed be his light, but also you may be in for a tough ride before, and if, this is resolved. It’s going to take a willingness on your boyfriends part to do what it takes and that depends on different and unique factors such as if he has HAD ENOUGH of the suffering.
Low self esteem is definitely related to repetitive negative thoughts and it could take while.
Very best wishes,
Mike
Tania Haque — September 25, 2008
I was diagnosed with ocd about 6 years ago, but it is at its worst now.
I keep on seeing these scarey images in my mind and i can’t make them go away. My mind forces me to see these horrible images and there is nothing i can do to stop them. They drive me crazy and make me really depressed. Please offer me some help. I would really appreciate it.
Mike Kinnaird — September 26, 2008
Hi Tania,
I did reply to your message via our contact form but I guess it’s gone into your spam box. Hotmail does that. GRRRRRR :-)
Anyway this was my reply to you;
Hi Tania
Mike here… I’m the author of Habit Guide and the article you read on our website.
I’m sorry you’re suffering with this. I know how awful it must be for you.
I will certainly do what I can to help you. Can you give me as much detail as possible about the history of your OCD and well as how it manifests in daily life (e.g. when more anxious etc) and what you are currently doing to try to overcome it. Also, what medical help are you getting — medication and psychological support. as well as anything you think is relevant — age, lifestyle, work situation and so-on.
If your case is like my friends, you’ll be glad to know the solutions are simple, not always easy, but they are simple. My friend is currently very well — not having obsessive thoughts at all.
Keep reading the article until you really “get it” and then we can discuss the article as a start point.
Mike.
———-
Make sure I’m listed in your address book and let’s do this by email ok.
Tania Haque — September 26, 2008
Dear Matt,
My ocd is more pure “o”, just obsessive thoughts. I guess i could say that the images i see in my mind are intrusive thoughts. Anything from a scary movie or something i saw in a magazine or iwitnessed in life, just tends to replay in my mind over and over. I’ve tired cognitive therapy and different medications, manily paxil and seroquel, but nothing seems to work. I know you said not to pay attention to the thoughts, but how do i do that if they appear so often in my mind. What can i do to make them go away? I just want to live a normal life. Is there any hope for me?
Thank you for ur time,
Tania
Mike Kinnaird — September 26, 2008
Hi Tania,
You can’t make them go away, they go away on their own when you stop paying attention and attaching importance and meaning to them.
That’s why meditation is key because you learn “here is me” and “there is the thought/image.”
Without this spaciousness, your attention can easily be sucked into powerful thoughts such as these. Without the distance you won’t be able to let go so easily.
My friend in the article wouldn’t meditate btw. He just wouldn’t do it and he made amazing progress with just the “not paying attention” technique. It took a long time (approx 2 years) though and was a two step forward and one step back type of progress.
In his case, the thoughts were backed by powerful beliefs that the thoughts actually protected him from imagined danger. The danger wasn’t real — except in his mind. It took literally years of reasoning for him to let go of the belief and so then he was able gradually to let go of the thoughts.
He would never have let go of the thoughts while he still believed they served him i.e. warned him of actual danger.
I don’t think there is anything structurally wrong with your brain or anything. I find that sensitive people are prone to OCD and they are intellegent.
These problems often contain individual subtleties that I can’t comment on in your case because I don’t know they are.
But what you describe isn’t so far away from the experience of ordinary people when they watch a horror movie say. I know I can be shaken for a little while afterwards — but it’s a matter of degree. You clearly are more sensitive to disturbing ideas and images than Joe Average.
That being the case, it makes sense to try and limit your exposure to potentially disturbing stuff. For example, I watch very little news because I find it negative and it bothers me so I rarely watch it. It serves no valuable purpose so I don’t do it.
Also worth noting is that a not insignificant part of the population is sensitive to caffeine. Stimulants can make sensitive people hyper-sensitive so that’s something to be aware of.
Generally increasing your relaxation will pay dividends with this problem. Get into a solid routine at bedtime where you slowly wind down and finish with relaxation exercises — perhaps a CD of guided relaxation before sleep.
Little things like cutting sown on caffeine and habitual relaxation make a BIG difference.
Reprogram your reaction to these “fear flashes” by noticing them calmly, recognizing they are made by part of your brain that thinks it serves you, that they in themselves cause no danger to you at all, and calmly let them go by paying attention to something else.
If the image cause a knee-jerk tension in you then consciously relax the tense body parts. Your new habit of bed-time relaxtion will teach you how to do this.
If you have time and the inclination, get into Yoga. The breathing, relaxation, meditation and exercises will gradually transform you into such a calm person you won’t recognize yourself :-)
In answer to your question “how do I let go of these unwanted thoughts when they keep repeating over and over.” The answer is you keep ignoring them over and over by the process I mentioned above. The part of your brain that produces these “fear flashes” cannot tell the difference between a real event and something you saw on TV or a magazine. That’s why sensitive people like you and me need to remember that and limit our exposure.
By consciously noticing and calmly ignoring, you repeatedly tell that part of your brain that there is nothing to fear and you reprogram the “fear flash” into a relaxation response. It takes calm persistance to do what it takes.
You can substitute a positive thought too if it helps and this too will re-channel the energy behind the fear. If you saw a frightened child you would speak calmly, say positive things and reassure there is no danger. These instinctive reactions to someone else’s fear show the natural solutions so you can give yourself the same treatment. Speak calmly, positively and reassuringly to the fearful part.
Keep reassuring the part that there’s nothing fear, it’s all ok, it can forget to tell you about that thing again.
Do that if it helps. It’s optional.
OK quick recap of the process. You get a sudden fear flash. You become tense. Notice it and reassure yourself “oh that’s only the movie, nothing to fear.” Consciously relax. Pay attention to something else.
Repeat this process over and over til the fear goes.
Don’t look out for fear flashes coming. Don’t be on your guard at all. Stay relaxed and focused as much as possible on other things.
I do think there is hope for you. I see this as an extreme example of what everyone experiences when they see disturbing images.
I hope this is clear. It’s quite a tricky subject to put into words. Let me know what you think of all this. As I said, I can only talk in general terms because I don’t know all the details of your case.
Mike.
Tania Haque — September 26, 2008
Hi Mike this is Tania,
I really appreciate the time and effort you spent writing me back. I think you are such a nice person to consider helping people like me. It really gives me hope and encouragement. I was wondering if u have a degrgee in mental health or anything like that since you know so much. I will try to do what u said about not [giving] the thoughts/images any attention and redirect my focus to something else. I think of it as such a blessing from God for letting me get help from a person like you. Thank you so much.
Mike Kinnaird — September 27, 2008
Hi Tania,
Feedback like yours makes it all worthwhile for me. Not a degree no — 20 years meditation and of course, I’m also human so I have experienced the same things.
A lot of those years I guess I was meditating many hours a day because I was in bed with extreme low energy states and there was nothing else to do :-)
Meditation is such an amazing process. I recommend it highly to everyone. It’s about finding the real you — what you naturally are and dis-identifying with the “made-up” you — ideas you have about yourself “I am this, I am that, I think this, I think that.”
Compassion is the result of meditation because compassionate is what we naturally are.
Another thought I had about your problem is that as much as possible, try to be in a supportive and loving environment. If you experience “real” fear in everyday life — an angry boss or partner for example, then your “general fear volume” is turned up. You’d be on your guard more which is not good for sensitive people.
So that’s just something to be aware of more long-term. Things like environment can’t be changed overnight but by keeping in mind that you want and need a loving environment, you’ll begin to move towards that.
Bottom line: stay away from people who don’t support you.
I’m really happy to help Tania. It’s truly my pleasure. If you try those suggestions and see how you get on, and report back, there may be little ideas that come out of taking this step that are individual to you, so let me know if you need more help getting totally clear on this.
I wish you the best of luck!
Mike.
Tania Haque — September 27, 2008
Dear Matt,
I’ve tried to ignore the the thoughts/images that come in my mind and try to focus on something else, but my mind is continuously telling me to focus on the things i don’t want. Why won’t my mind listen to me? Why won’t it let me focus on the something that i like instead of something that scares me. I seriously think that my mind is evil and working
me. How can i train my mind to not focus on these things and focus on
something else.
Love Tania
p.s. i hope u don’t mind me writing to you so much. i just really think that
the first time in my life i can trust someone who understands what i’m going through. i think u are an angel. your my last hope
Mike Kinnaird — September 28, 2008
Hi Tania,
I don’t mind you writing at all. Write as much as you like to.
There is no evil there in your mind. These thoughts have a lot of power thats all. They repeat their conditioning, that’s what they do. Your attention empowers that process.
My mind will sometimes randomly throw in what you would describe as an evil thought. It’s only by meditation, that I see it’s random rubbish.
For example on rare occasions, a racist thought may surface. It’s just a culturally conditioned thought — not me. I’m not racist at all, just the thought. I recognize it as attitudes and emotions in others that got embedded in me.
The thought was put there by my culture. For example if you hang out with people who have a certain attitude, your mind will begin to take on the same attitude very quickly.
Have you ever spent time with a new friend and within only a few hours, you notice yourself taking on their mannerisms? That’s how the mind works.
Now imagine how every human contact has affected you since birth. Your character is made up of thought habits you had about your enivronment — the sum total of what you focused on and took “on-board” from all your connections with life.
To be truly free you have to control this process. You have to be able to choose — to say “yes” or “no” to conditioning.
There is no other way than to “go higher” through meditation and if that feels scary to you then start with relaxation tapes and CD which will get you out of any states of anxiety you are in.
Anxiety magnifies the process of taking on new conditioning massively. This is totally natural. A dangerous situation such as say a lion attacking you needs you total attention and a hyper alert state.
This is why, by the way, that childhood trauma can result in OCD later on. It starts a chain that eventually becomes hard to stop.
This is early days for you Tania. I think it’s wonderful you’ve made a start but changing your mind takes a while.
Thoughts don’t go away overnight because they’re part of your “program” — conditioning. You change that over time by contolling your attention or specifically, withdrawing attention from thoughts you don’t want.
You have to learn to become the driver of your own mental car so-to-speak.
So, relaxation will remove the anxiety component to this problem adnd that is so so important. I urge you to do relaxation exercises. Put your attention inside your body and feel for tension throughout your whole body, breath deeply and so on. Learn how to do that.
20 odd years ago I was a “walking head.” All my attention was in my head and it took me many years to “get out of my head.”
You also need to learn that process of putting attention into your body, feeling and releasing tension consiously.
These “evil” thoughts. Have a sense of humor about them of you can. Laugh at them! Don’t take them seriously. They are there because of cultural and personal conditioning and that is all.
They are not you. Because you are the one who can notice them.
PERSISTANCE with this is the key. You cannot stop a thought arising because to do so is giving it more attention, and so turning up it’s volume.
Remember the stall holder example in the article? It’s hard to hold your attention onto something else but practice practice practice and these thoughts “volume” will start to be turned down.
And over the next weeks and months, if you do what it takes, the volume will diminish until they go away altogether.
Attention turns the volume up and focusing AWAY turns the volume down. That’s why I said the solution is SIMPLE because it’s only a matter of attention. Are you paying attention to these thoughts or not. That’s the only criteria that matters.
Thoughts have a sense of importance attached. You can laugh at that. They are not important and you are free to let them go.
Keep it simple — don’t pay them the slightest attention. How do you ignore someone in real life? It’s the same. You know how to do it.
Relax and ignore. Be persistance is the process. Be clear about the process.
You only need to choose your attention when the evil thoughts come. Turn away from them. The stronger the thought/image the more intensely you try to focus onto something else.
Mike (not matt :-)
Tyler Jones — September 29, 2008
hi,
my names tyler,im 18, and in college, okay about two weeks ago i was laying in bed, and i suddenly got an unwanted bad thought, it troubled me up to this day, and i cant ever seem to get rid of it, im not that type of person when the thought came into process, but…it did freak me out quite a bit and now im constantly questioning myself over and over and at times it goes away and other times it comes back..i know itll go away eventually but just the fact that its here…it is just so ANNOYING!!..
but i will appreciate help and some tips on meditation or whatever way there is to get out of it..and another thing, is this just a phase?
Mike Kinnaird — September 29, 2008
Hi Tyler,
Thanks for your question. The good news is that by being proactive now, you stop it becoming a potential problem down-the-line. First thing is to stop questioning about it but just notice it when it comes with curiosity. Really resist the temptation to question or give it any importance at all.
Strong, persistent and problematic thoughts such as those in OCD are probably best paid no attention at all in the intital stages because they can trigger powerful emotions very quickly but with you, I think the thought is mild enough to give it the curiosity treatment.
Just look at it curiously when it comes and then let it go and pay attention to something else.
Don’t engage it or follow a line of thought related to it or anything like that.
If you want to start meditation which is a wonderful thing to do, then perhaps try zen breath counting meditation. It’s a good one and perhaps the simplest one. The method is not the essential thing but that there is a conscious focus and preferrably a feedback system to show you where you got lost (e.g. counting)
Let me know how you get on,
Best wishes and good luck
Mike.
Tyler JOnes — September 30, 2008
hey mike!
thanks a who lot man! i took up the idea of retracing my steps of when it first occured and went over it with a family member, they went along with me helping, and this may seem strange, but meditating on the fact and getting deep into it or retracing my steps to that night truely sparked the fire and the fact also becuase i remember going through some other emotional things that night. Other than that theres that good saying “keep asking and it will be given to you” or “keep searching and you will find it” its awesome mike and once again thanks! ill keep in touch with you if anything else comes up
sincerely,
Tyler
P.s. keep up the good work Mike!!!
Mike Kinnaird — October 1, 2008
Hi Tyler!
Great you found relief. It sure can be a comfort to trace the cause although it’s not always possible if the problems is like 20 years old or something.
My friend always wanted to know “Why is this happening?” In his case too, although a very old problem, we did trace the cause and like you, he got some relief from that which helped let go of the problem.
Knowing the cause isn’t essential in my view though, only in-as-much as it helps you to let go of it.
Yes… keep in touch!
God bless,
Mike.
anon — October 1, 2008
Hi Mike,
I am currently in a horrid state of anxiety, obsessive thought and depression.
I’ll try and tell my story as simply as possible.
Around 3 months ago I started ago going out with my best friend (whom for privacy reasons we will name X). Before then, she was my best friend for over 2 years. She knows absolutely everything about me, my deepest secrets; which if were to be exposed on a widespread level, would cause me much pain and embarrassment. I know everything about her as well. This really set the foundation for a good relationship, which we both agreed would be long term (i.e. eventual marriage). I have always been one to analyze my thoughts in the past, but around 3 weeks ago a thought of doubt came into my mind concerning her. She did nothing to trigger this off. We have a very stable, honest, open relationship. I held onto that negative thought and latched onto it. I was scared and concerned that it was the truth. I then continued to combat that thought with good thoughts of X. These would only assist in giving it further ammunition. And it did.
Eventually I was thinking thoughts such as feelings for my other best friends (who are friends with X as well), I began to mock her (attack her qualities) in my head from time to time, then that advanced to having thoughts of being violent (I am a very peaceful and caring person), I would also silently in my head mock my family and have violent thoughts there as well, evil thoughts basically. These thoughts were basically against my very core, but my analytical nature forced me to consider them. Later that week I went to my counsellor, and I had really dug a hole from where I started. She advised me on mindfulness and living in the moment. She didn’t go into too much detail. I felt fairly good after this and continued my day. But then the thoughts entered again over the weekend. I couldn’t stand the thoughts which were entering my brain and attacking her and ultimately my core being. I ended up breaking it up with her (keep in mind that I told her every single thought that went through my head, I was completely honest). We were both still in love with eachother, but I was so lost in my thoughts that it was bringing us both down.
Whilst we agreed to be best friends, we couldn’t resist our closeness and intimacy. We continued to be intimate. We began to get confused why we broke up in the first place. The negative thoughts to some extent were a bit weaker because I had been practising mindfulness and living in the moment. I thought I would be strong enough to be with her again. I put it down to that I hadn’t really a clue that weekend previously on how to manage the obsessive thoughts.
We got back together around a week ago. It was good for the first couple of days, I still had the negative thoughts but not to such a great extent. They came from time to time and then suddenly one day they really ripped at my core. I began questioning what these thoughts meant. I thought maybe they had some underlying reason. A big question which has been on my mind - how can you differentiate negative feelings, with the truth? For weeks I had told myself - ‘I know what’s in my heart. I love X. Don’t analyze as it only creates doubt’. Eventually my mind began to attack my heart, and questioned whether I really loved her at all as more than a friend. She has cute mannerisms you see, and before these all came in I loved them, I never gave them a second thought. But the way my mind was building up it started to attack those. I couldn’t stop the thoughts coming in. From time to time my mind was slipping and I felt I needed to combat these by thinking positive thoughts about her. I began to struggle when I thought about her in a good way, because the thoughts would come and attack that. I also started to question - what is the difference between best friends and bf/gf? Is it just physical love? I feel so strongly for my best friends, that I ended up so confused.
I broke up with her again two days ago. It was fairly mutual. She could see that I wasn’t strong enough to go on and that it was hurting me and also her. We have exams around this period and she was struggling to cope with my problems. It was becoming a bit much for her to constantly be helping me. Exams are a very stressful time so this is entirely understandable, and relying on one person too much has it’s drawbacks.
So we agreed to be best friends again. I thought maybe this would cease thoughts a little so I could get back on track. Even though, my feelings of bf/gf love weren’t as strong my mind is still attacking her core and her mannerisms. It’s almost been telling me that I should severe all ties. Which is not what I want. I feel sick thinking about my life without her. My mind has been linking back to other events in my past, where people would frustrate me. I ended eventually severing ties with them, but there were other facotrs there (both of those people I thought about from my past treated me poorly). Because I gave in to some extent, through breaking up, I’m in a state of mind where I’m capable to continue giving in. I need to combat this.
I don’t want this to continue anymore. I’ve been seeing my counsellor twice a week for the last couple of weeks. I’m just afraid, that these feelings are the truth and are linked with my past. I’v tried to some extent to relax, but with exams pressing, my brain is having difficulty distracting itself. I know what’s truly in my heart. But my mind is running rampage at the moment.
Please help me get rid of these thoughts. I can’t see an end to this at the moment, and I feel sick that I’v given in to these thoughts, which originally had no meaning. But now they continue to play on my mind.
Thank you so much. It would mean the absolute world to me to hear your advice.
God bless.
anon — October 1, 2008
I also feel very hopeless right now..
I can’t seem to get out of this spiral. I’m so exhausted and worn out.
GAH
Mike Kinnaird — October 2, 2008
Dear Anon,
Firstly I’m quite surprised at the lucidity and insightful nature of your description of events.
The intensity of unwanted thought problems is related to your general level of consciousness and it really seems to me that you are a highly conscious person i.e. not fully identified with thoughts.
Your problem is actually a wonderful description of how a little, fairly innocent thought can become insidious if given enough attention.
It seems to me that an additional layer of pain is heaped on by the fact that you really love this girl. Losing soneone you love is hard at the best of times but when it’s your own self destructive thoughts that cause it, it’s no suprise you’re confused and depressed.
I don’t know all the subtleties of your situation so please bear that in mind;
I think a massive factor in this could be the impending exams. Stress — the fight or flight mode puts us in a physiological state really not meant for calm rational thinking. Low level stress is low level irrationality.
The exams are there, they’re real and need to be faced so I feel it would be good to line things up in the best way to get over what is a big mile-stone in life and then deal with relationship fall-out later on.
Lining things up means making peace with your girl. Tell it was all your fault, tell her you love her, tell you still care for her but that with the exams coming up and your head all over the place, you can’t think straight. In other words, try to “pause” that. Put on hold if possible so you can sort yourself out and your head out,
Second, get your health on track. Get a solid sleep pattern, listen to chill-out music and relaxation tapes, have warm baths, gets some exercise and eat some fruit and veg.
All these things play into the situation you’re in and therefore you can affect how you feel about everything by being calm and well rested. Get out of fight or flight asap, then you’ll see things in a different way.
As far as specifics to do with the thoughts: If your anxious… you need exercise. You have zero chance of getting clarity or thinking sanely whilst even in a mild state of anxiety.
Anxiety can become a trigger to RUN. Burn off that adrenaline asap.
After that… listen to your heart. You love this girl, i know it. Trust your heart, and so these thoughts by contrast seem silly and incongruent.
I think you can recognize them as conditioning, you have that awareness to see you created this, by playing around with one little thought. That’s the power of attention.
The beautiful thing is that this awareness will now be with you for life and you’ve learned a powerful lesson about how dangerous it is to play about and give attention to dysfunctional thoughts.
Anyway, I think I’ll leave it there just for now because you may be able to shed some more light by reading this.
There is great hope here I think. Get rid of adrenaline, relax, speak nicely to your girl, pay no attention to dysfunctional thoughts and trust your heart.
Oh and get some early nights and eat fruit! :-)
That’s a job list for you :-)
I know you have a crisis here — the sooner the better for getting on top.
I’m here for you.
Mike.
p.s. the advice about mindfulness is spot on.
Mike Kinnaird — October 2, 2008
Anon
I dwelled on this some more;
What would I actually do if I was you right now? Clear and simple solutions — bearing in mind that we both agree that the thoughts themselves have no validity and are simply a product of your attention.
Being in such a crisis state has one simple effective solution and that is walking, mindful walking.
It’s cheap and you can do it by just stepping outside your door. It will burn off adrenaline and the rythmic nature of walking can calm you down. You’ll also sleep better.
So I would walk walk walk keep doing it ’til you feel better!
Don’t dwell on your problems — just be present. Solutions can come from a calm and open state.
So anyway, that’s the result of my dwelling and that’s what I would do in your situation right now.
I’d walk — ’til I dropped if necessary :-)
Mike.
anon — October 2, 2008
Really appreciate your response Mike. It means alot that I got such a lenghtly and useful response in such a short time. Thanks for your support.
In relation to your reply; we’re in a fairly peaceful situation at the moment. She knows that I love her, she knows my situation. The bf/gf feelings I have for her have been reduced quite a bit. I think that until I’m on my feet mentally again, I can consider being with her. I don’t know how long that will be however. My problem has being placing too much significance on little thoughts. Like I think every thought has an underlying message. It is comforting that she said that it didn’t matter for the moment as in a number of days, months, years etc. we eventually will get back together. Between now and that time, who knows what will happen. But she agrees I have to get back on my feet, mentally; no matter how I feel.
The more I think about my feelings, the more there’s a chance for distortion. I saw my counsellor tonight, and said similar things to what you suggested. It’s all down to not placing so much signifance on thoughts, and live to some extent not so analytical and be a bit more carefree.
I’m not longer going to be discussing my mind with X. Simply because it’s not helping either of us, and ultimately I want us to have fun as best friends.
What are your thoughts on this?
Thank you so much once again.
God Bless
Tyler JOnes — October 2, 2008
hey mike
its me again lol..hey on the thought process of tracing back to the moment and gettting rid of it..well out of all honesty ive dealt with it alot better but at times it comes back and brings me down im tired of it..but what i really want to know is what is it?is it just the fact that when it happened it scared me?cuz i never had it before and it screwed me up for a bit and i just want to know if itll seriously ever mildly begin to fade away, because since then its been easy to deal with along with the fact that it is in a way fading more and more
write me back when you get the chance, because idk if its due to the fact that i dont have much going on in life, meaning like im bored all day and i currently do not have a job and im just going to school, or maybe my mind has a habit to think about this nonsense at times
thanks mike
Mike Kinnaird — October 3, 2008
Hi Anon,
Carefree yes. The problem is that any time you try to “become” something like carefree, you create an image and then act it out. It’s role playing. You play the role of carefree.
You should become who you are naturally by letting go of all mental labels about yourself. This is hard but you do it by meditation.
The gf situation is stable so that is good. It goves you space to settle a while.
As far as discussing your feelings and thoughts with x: I think you are open and honest and that is a wonderful quality only in-as-much as it is a natural quality and not a forced ideal.
When you are in a calm place, your awareness naturally expands and any action you take comes out of that awareness. You will then tend to do what is right for the whole situation.
In that state, openess and honesty tend to shine through because you have a greater connection — a true connection which those around you.
The goal is to find your natural self by letting go of all the mental stuff.
In general, don’t attach importance to thoughts. When a thought comes that is important, you’ll recognize it anyway by it’s qualities of intensity and “rightness.”
Let go of as much as possible and live in the present moment.
Be mindful ALWAYS of the present and meditate as much as possible.
And don’t forget your health. Mind is not independent of body.
Mike.
Mike Kinnaird — October 3, 2008
Hi again Tyler,
Yes I would say boredom is a factor because attention is everything. If you’re bored, then you have more time to dwell on dangerous ideas :-) The devil makes work… and all that.
Boredom seems to me to be created when a person is quite entrenched in ego-consciousness. Because the ego mind wants entertainment, it always wants to be entertained and gets bored when there’s no entertainment.
I remember reading a while back about someone who meditated for two whole days or something and was just fascinated for hours by ants on the wall.
I get this. Fascination and deep contentment are aspects of your true self. In fact, in NLP, fascination is considered to be “the most desirable state.”
There are many factors playing into your situation — your level of awareness, fear of the initial thought, yes, boredom, giving the thought undue importance.
The state of fear or anxiety amplifies the process of conditioning many many times. So I can see that if the inital thought you had scared you, then that’s what amplified it and made it a problem.
The only process you need to fully be clear on is that you ignore unwanted thoughts. Attention is everything.
These thoughts have a primitive mechanism. You need discernment to be above that. I.e. you choose “yes” or “no” to every thought.
Thoughts are not you, you must choose which ones to hold on to and which to let go. Choose carefully :-)
If they are dying away it’s because you’re paying less attention.
Cheers!
Mike.
Tyler JOnes — October 3, 2008
thanks mike!..but i do have one more question to ask lol well for now..but do foreign thoughts that you usually do not have and they pop into mind randomly, can those thoughts affect somebody? like you said thoughts arent you and its incredible how the mind works, it was all becuase of one night that i was laying in bed and randomly this dumb thought of what would happen if i shot myself popped into mind, yet im not that type of person and that thought wasnt me and it wasnt out of choice,and to top that i did have a gun in my house which of course just fueled the fire even more freaking the heck out of me i started thinking if im mentally ill and just fear and soon it just bundled up messing up my mental state and to this day it still lingers there as if its a habit to think about it i hate it
Mike Kinnaird — October 3, 2008
Hi Tyler,
I can really see now why this thought upset you! Of course, you can’t seperate the thousands of other life factors including ever thought you ever had, from your state of mind right now.
What triggered this doesn’t really matter as much as what you do with it. For all you know it could have been a movie you saw when you were 10 years old. Perhaps sensory impressions triggered a memory, perhaps you were feeling low as well, it could be so many things.
I wanted to die many many times during 13 years of living hell with chronic fatigue. During that time my mental state was mainly one of groggy foggy hangover and a feeling that I would like a big hole to open up and swallow me whole :-)
If that helps any :-)
You could just be amused by the random thought. I guess the fact that it was so out of character is what shocked you so much. I can really understand that.
Try to really take on the attitude that it’s just silly thoughts. Be light hearted about it.
It’s so easy to create mental monsters by focusing on dysfunctional thoughts. I really think the amount of negativity in film and on TV as well as the values of society make it really hard for many young people whose minds are so impressionable.
I saw a TV program last night about an eight year old with anorexia. No different from my perspective than OCD or many other mental issues. It’s different aspects of the same issues;
Poor enviroment — too much negativity and not enough love and nurture. Not enough education for kids to “know themselves.”
Will finish this in a bit… need to go just now :-)
bfn
Mike.
Mike Kinnaird — October 4, 2008
Hi again Tyler,
Ok I’ll try to finish your question now :-) I was going off at a tangent anyway.
Random thoughts can be conditioning that are triggered by another thought or even a smell or an external event. It could be so many things like I said.
And so many things also play into the quality of thoughts you have… like if you are well rested, have eaten well, whether you feel good about your life and so on.
It’s all incredibly complex but in terms of what you need to do it’s incredibly simple. You choose “do I pay attention to this or not.”
Thoughts are information that’s all. Some are quality thoughts and some are garbage — a lot depends on the quality you “put in.” You know, garbage in, garbage out!
The fear reaction you had to the thought is probably why it’s hanging around. If you think about it, it’s emotional fear that you attach to images in scary films that keep them coming back.
When you fear something you tell your mind you’re in danger and so naturally, that primitive part of the mind will do it’s best to protect you from what you fear. It will keep reminding you about the danger!
You have to tell that part that the fear is gone by attaching “unimportance” to that thought now. Having the attitude “oh that’s just that silly thought” and ignoring it, it will go away it time.
What you don’t do is fuel it by attention. Attention turns up the volume, ignoring turns down the volume.
Remember that and you have tremendous power over your life. “Do I pay attention to this or not.” One of the most powerful things you can say to yourself!!
Mike.
Tyler JOnes — October 4, 2008
exactly! mike thats just what it is and like i said im not that type of person at all..and i thank you alot mike your a powerful great guy and i know that you help people out in times of annoying thoughts!
mike GOd bless you
tyler
Mike Kinnaird — October 4, 2008
Thank you Tyler. Peace :-)
Tyler Jones — October 5, 2008
so can this maybe be a symptom of OCD?..because i do understand that OCD invovles constant unwanted thoughts that could be very uncomfortable
Mike Kinnaird — October 6, 2008
Hi Tyler,
From my perspective. OCD is just a label for an extreme example of the issues we all face.
Anyone can create a monster by focusing on a scary thought and building and building until it’s obsessive and compulsive. It’s a matter of degree.
Keep it simple. Choose “yes” or “no.” Do I give this attention or not?
Like I said in the article, putting your attention onto something else is sometimes hard but you do your best.
The fact that you asked this questions tells me you’re probably still dwelling on this.
How do you ignore someone in real life even if they are bugging you? You “ignore.” You don’t give attention even when they are demanding it.
The thought is primitive. It thinks it serves you because you initially attached great importance to it.
Don’t think around this. DON’T try to figure out how to get rid of it, what it means, if you’re ill, if you’re going to get ill, what triggered it, why is it here, Am I crazy?
All this is more attention which FEEDS it.
No attention to do with anything related to this thought. As you become aware of something related to this, focus intensely on an external object. Do it quick, nip it in the bud. You’ll get good at it and then it will become a good habit.
Don’t be on your guard. When a thought comes, you have a simple plan, don’t look for it or watch for it coming. That is more attention.
No attention.
anon — October 13, 2008
Hi there Mike.
I won’t go into detail too much because I need to study for exams. But last week a [moderated] thought came into my head. Unfortunately I’ve latched onto it. I don’t believe it for a second, but it’s getting in the way of my brain and thinking. I am really over this. Please help what can I do?
I know it’s not true, but I need it out of my brain.
Mike Kinnaird — October 13, 2008
Hi Anon,
There’s so many factors feeding into what thoughts arise that there’s no point trying to untangle all that.
Habit is a massive factor, but also your lifestyle — whether you slept well, stress levels, nutrition and so-on.
The content of the thought or what made it come up are not the important things.
As you say… you KNOW the thought is wrong/dysfunctional.
Choose.
“yes” or “no” to giving it more attention.
Attention is everything. Attention is the volume control for thoughts.
Last night I had a deepy disturbing dream. Luckily I know what to do but I can easily see how it would be easy to dwell on that dream I had — what does it mean? Is it a premonition? Blah blah.
I know that attention is the key. Even though there are still emotional reminants from that dream that linger, I know they’ll go in a little while if I pay no attention and attach no importance to flashes from the dream or the emotions.
You can’t get rid of unwanted thoughts directly. You do it by letting them go — by not attaching importance to them and then paying attention to something else.
A critical component is your level of consciousness of ability to disidentify with the content of thought and say “here I am and there is the thought/feeling.”
Be careful what you feed your mind and what you pay attention to!
Let me know how you get on.
Mike
anon — October 13, 2008
Thanks Mike. It just get’s extremely difficult once I latch on to let go. As I’ve told you before about X. Since I last spoke, we’ve gotten back together again. Because I know that the thoughts aren’t true and that I love her. And it’s hurting both of us by attaching meaning to my thoughts. Just lately following a small argument we had, some thoughts have gotten into my brain. Just small things which I’ve been analysing, which are really starting to frustrate me. Just in relation to how much she talks to me, and what she says to me. I really don’t wanna think about those negative thoughts, because I know they’re not real at all. But equally, I want to be able to think about her in general. Like nice thoughts about everything about her. But I want to do this without suddenly triggering my mind off. Thoughts?
Thank you again so much.
Mike Kinnaird — October 13, 2008
Hi Anon,
Lifestyle is the solution to better quality thoughts. In the moment, once a thought arises, you choose “yes” or “no” to giving it more attention.
You, at least, can recognize that the quality of these thoughts are poor. Therefore choose “no.”
Yes it is very difficult once you latch on. The very word you used there implies attachment and ownership.
You chose “yes” at an earlier point and built this thought up and made it part of “you.” You attached yourself.
The low level stress of your exams will be playing into this. Are you in “fight or flight” mode or relaxed? Anxiety states produce very irrational thoughts because that state is not designed for you to be rational. It’s designed to save your life in a crisis, when your life is threatened. It’s not a state you want to be in for more than a few seconds.
To think better thoughts about x and about your life you need to address all your lifestyle factors. Every single thing affects every other thing.
Listen to relaxation cd’s, exercise, eat plenty of fruits and veg, MEDITATE! Evern a few minutes a day will help.
Get all the lifestyle factors into a habit so that creating quality thoughts is effortless.
Body and mind are not separate. For example — the disturbing dream I had? Because I ate late at night. Partially digested food affects your brain! It’s the same blood circulating in your brain as the rest of your body.
Everything affects every other thing. Walking is a great balancer in a crisis.
It’s a two prong attack :-) In the moment it’s always simple — “yes” or “no.” But the quality of thoughts AND you ability to say yes or no depend on your overall STATE of being and that is caused by your lifestyle.
What do you think about that?
Mike.
anon — October 14, 2008
That makes a lot of sense Mike, thanks. Really appreciate your reply. My counsellor said also that he is expecting that these thoughts will decrease dramatically once exams are over
Mike Kinnaird — October 14, 2008
Anon,
I had a couple more ideas about your situation. It seems that certain things about x are irritating you?
Your relationship obviously has complexities that I’m not aware of but maybe you’re not communicating 100%?
If something she does is irritating then it’s perfectly ok to say so as long as it’s done in a loving way so that she doesn’t take it as an attack on her.
Do it light-heartedly with a smile and it will be ok.
If I have something to say, I usually “file it” and mark it “to be brought up at the opportune moment.”
The moment will come and you can drop in what you need to say with a smile and a loving heart.
Hope this helps,
Mike.
anon — October 14, 2008
Cheers Mike. Yeah. Some small things were, but I brought them up today and it’s better now.
So you’re saying by the way, (just reading over your previous comment)that whenever I feel or think something I don’t wanna feel; distract myself and reshape? No matter what the thought? Because I got one about one of my good friends whose a girl. I wanna still be able to see her and talk to her without that thought coming along. Would you say it’s just a matter of ignoring it till it goes? And just getting my lifestyle back in order without analysing?
Mike Kinnaird — October 14, 2008
Hi Anon,
Exactly right.
anon — October 14, 2008
Hi there again Mike
I was wondering, (and it may not be your field of expertise) your view on looking at other girls. I find it really counterproductive. Because I seem to latch onto those feelings, and almost end up comparing. I know people normally can be able to look or ‘check out’ other people whilst going out. I want to be able to think someone is attractive without having to attach negative thoughts to these.
Any ideas? Sorry to constantly write in!
God bless
Mike Kinnaird — October 14, 2008
“I want to be able to think someone is attractive without having to attach negative thoughts to these.”
Then do that :-) Sounds like a plan to me :-)
It hadn’t escaped me that a lot of these unwanted thoughts are to do with girls :-)
Being attracted to other girls is perfectly natural. That is just nature and it’s also just information in the sense that you only ever experience your own nervous system.
Your instintive conditioning creates the feelings of attraction.
What you DO with that information is your choice (ideally).
I have to tell you that inital attraction can quickly turn into something else once you get to really know the person!
If you are going out with x, then wanting someone else is going to damage your relationship. Is that what you want?
You always have choice.
There’s a big difference between looking and seeking. Enjoy what is natural but choose what’s best for you and those around you.
I think your above plan is a good one, go for that.
Mike
Mike Kinnaird — October 14, 2008
p.s. you think too much. :-)
Try not actively thinking for a while and rather, see what thoughts arise.
After a while, you’ll see they are better quality thoughts in general.
So then you choose — do I pay attention or not. If yes, you may want to consciously think for a while — this is choiceful thinking not mind chatter.
Then… reshape… go back to not thinking again.
Mike Kinnaird — October 14, 2008
p.p.s.
I LOVE what you said in that earlier message
“Distract myself and reshape”
BRILLIANT
keep doing that for the rest of your life and you’ll be very happy!!
Thoughts are essentially a disturbance of your “shape.”If you get too many thoughts, then you become very DISTURBED :-)
Distract and reshape…. always!
Mike.
anon — October 14, 2008
I don’t want to get to know anyone or jeopradise what me and X have. That’s what I’m afraid of. Ideally, and this is just me, I just want to be attracted to X and not notice other girls. But I think how I got in this place in the first place may have been related to noticing other girls were attractive and I started freaking out.
I’m not the cheating time at all. I wouldn’t dream of cheating, but when thoughts like ‘oh that girl is attractive’ pop into my head I start feeling like I’m hurting her, or something along those lines. Or my mind will end up comparing or whatever. Which is not something I want because what X and I have is so amazing. I would give the world to keep it.
anon — October 14, 2008
This line sort of scared me a bit.
“I have to tell you that inital attraction can quickly turn into something else once you get to really know the person!”
Because like, the thoughts that come into my head about my other best friends who are girls, I know them really well, but I wouldn’t want to date them. Lately I’ve almost being avoiding them out of fear that thoughts will arise in my head. Any advice here? Would it just be better to face them head on and just distract myself if something pops into my heaD?
anon — October 14, 2008
Also, another thought popped into my head. About next year and University. I’ll be in a place without my friends and especially X. I’m worried like, that it’s gonna be really hard with my thoughts how they are because I’m afraid I might think a girl is attractive or feel something for them. And I don’t want that to happen at all. I wanna get a good mix of friends - guys and girls without having to worry about having strong feelings there. It’s just that I haven’t been to a new environment before since Year 5 when I first went to my old school. And I’m freaking out. I know me and X will be as strong as possible once I get through this but I’m afraid thoughts might come flooding back.
Would the best option be.. hypothetically speaking; to simply say - there’s the thought, it doesn’t have to be part of me unless I consider it. I choose not to accept it, and believe it to be ‘just a thought’. And move on from it? To some extent though I wouldn’t know whether or not the thought was true or not. Or would I? And if it was even true.. is it possible to just disregard it - say ‘no’ and reshape etc. Because obviously if I was still going out with X (most likely and what I want more than anything) that thought we would be a negative one. Hence, I’d need to disregard it and not consider it.
Thoughts on this?
I’m so so tired of these hypothetical situations and worrying over every little detail. It’s ripping me to shreds and I’m so tired of it all.
Thanks again.
anon — October 14, 2008
In relation to what I just wrote. Does it not matter if a thought has some basis of truth to it? Just if it’s unwanted.. that’s the difference. Like obviously.. I am scared out of my wits if I go to Uni first day and feel something for a girl there.Because that would hurt me and X. Would that just be classified as unwanted? And let it go? You can see how this is spiralling inside my head haha..
Mike Kinnaird — October 15, 2008
Hi Anon,
Yes, what you say is right… it doesn’t matter whether thoughts are true or not, just whether they are wanted. Specifically… “do I want to give this more attention.”
It may be fear of losing x that’s partly fuelling this, like I said there are many factors but straight away, from now on, try not to fuel this “problem” with more attention.
I put problem in quotes because it’s largely a self created problem. You are trying to find an intellectual answer to prevent an unwanted scenario.
That can’t happen because you create pain mentality by building up projected events in your mind.
You know what you want clearly. Just be at peace with that and see what happens. Drop the “what if’s.” Keep reshaping when any thought comes up to do with this subject.
You’ve already thought over and over about this without solution so the chances of finding one are about zero. That’s because you can’t intellectually protect yourself from every single possibility of life.
You don’t need to protect yourself from feelings for other people. It’s actually fine to feel even deep love for another person and yet still be with x.
It’s all ok.
I know you perhaps can’t see this right now but meditation and living a healthy life solves all these problems. When you become rooted in something deeper, you have a strong sense of “everything will be ok whatever happens” and then life events are just fun things that happen.
It’s become a habit to worry about this so it’s going to take quite a bit of awareness and constant reshaping to get back to a calm state of mind.
This post has all the tips and tricks you need now and I think you’ve got a very good handle on what needs to be done.
Let it ALL go, everything, and find a place of no thought. Stop thinking altogether and just observe thoughts coming and going.
There is no active thinking need for this subject anymore.
Once you get the hang of this, you will love it! You will become naturally who you are, rooted in who you are — which is the space or awareness of thought.
Once you’ve mastered watching thoughts come and go then you simply choose to pay more attention or not. Somethings need more attention.
It’s about driving your own mental car.
Let it all go and see what comes up. Observe what comes up with curiosity before diving in with all the intellectualizng.
Thoughts come and thoughts go and you remain aware.
You won’t lose anything… you will GAIN, because that greater awareness IS more intelligent. No thinking required.
Try it… see what happens.
It’s not easy because it’s a habit to keep thinking, keep thinking, keep thinking. But once you get out of that…. it’s RELIEF!!
The line that scared you a bit… I was just saying really that all that glitters isn’t gold. That’s my experience anyway.
Trust in yourself that whatever feelings you have for other people… girls or guys, it’s all great. Drop all the mental strategies and take life one moment at a time.
You know the phrase “wake up and smell the roses”? It just means that to enjoy life you need to pay attention to right now.
The more you do that, the more joy there will be. Because all mental attention is an abstraction of life. Of course, we sometimes want and need to think but most of the time we should be smelling the roses.
Like I said, I think you’ve really got it now. You know what needs to be done. All the old way will still hang around for a while but the plan is very simple. Distract and reshape.
Keep doing that.
The old thoughts may trick you with a sense of importance. They are not. You know you want to be with x. That’s all you need to know for now.
Let everything else go.
Distract and reshape.
anon — October 15, 2008
Thanks once again. I want to let these go but often it becomes too much and I wanna find a solution. I just need to distract and reshape..
When you say it’s possible to have deep love for someone and still be with X… do you mean as friends? Because I do have deep love for my friends. If I had deep love in a more than friends way that would tear me apart. Like really. I’m not sure what you meant there. I don’t think it’s a good thing to feel more than friends love with anyone other than X.
I want to lose this worry more than anything… I just want to snap my fingers and lose it. I’m so tired of analysing. Gahhhh
Mike Kinnaird — October 15, 2008
Hi Anon, yes definitely friends love.
True love is not needy or wanting anyway.
Sometimes we can get so enmeshed in thinking that it seems there is no way out.
If there’s too much mental noise, try focusing on something external. Anything, it doesn’t matter what. Give ALL your attention to it til things go quiet again inside.
You are learning something new here and you can’t expect immediate results. It takes persistance.
The plan is simple but not easy. But the beauty is in it’s simplicity.
Imagine your mind is a lake. You want the surface of the lake to be very calm.
Thoughts are like throwing a pebble in.
They create a bit of disturbance and then it all settles again.
Most peoples experience is that the surface of their lake is never calm. Imagine 10 pebbles at once, 100, 1000?
Try to get you lake calm :-)
and then notice each pebble on it own, wait for calm again.
You need to remove attention from your head. That’s why I say focus on something external. You can also focus on your body parts as an alternative.
If your mind is very active — try your feet! They’re furthest away from your head :-)
Mike.
anon — October 15, 2008
Once again, I can’t thank you enough. It’s just about retraining my brain. And I wanna do this sooner rather than later.
Sorry just clarifying.. what do you mean by..
“True love is not needy or wanting anyway.”
Thank you so much
Mike Kinnaird — October 15, 2008
Love is what you are. And therefore needs nothing.
for me, probably the most beautiful words ever written are the bible description of love… hold on I will get them for you.
Mike Kinnaird — October 15, 2008
The Way of Love
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith,so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
Mike Kinnaird — October 15, 2008
Ok to clariy a bit…
What most people talk of as love isn’t true love but intense wanting and neediness.
True love is the recognition of yourself in another!
You are love in the deepest sense. You are made out of it! :-)
anon — October 15, 2008
Well in that case; I’d like to think that what me and X have is true love. We are entirely ourselves with eachother and have eachother’s complete recognition and acceptance. The problem is though I don’t wanna define love. I don’t want to look it up on the internet looking for an answer. I want to feel true love. And I think I have ever since I laid eyes on her.
Thanks again Mike.
anon — October 15, 2008
Although I do have to some extent - some wanting and neediness. Are you saying this should be limited a bit? And just don’t force it? Just feel it?
I think I have true love though..
Mike Kinnaird — October 15, 2008
Yes, just feel it — if you are aware of neediness just be aware of it.
“there is neediness in me”
I noticed it.
Then move on.
Reshape always.
Mike Kinnaird — October 15, 2008
Love cannot easily be defined. The bible definition is good but “a finger poiting to the moon is not the moon.”
anon — October 15, 2008
I’m sorry to continue this back and forth haha. (Hope it’s not annoying..)
How would you define neediness?
Mike Kinnaird — October 15, 2008
Neediness is created by ego consciousness. So whilst a person is identified with a projected self-image, there will always be neediness.
The ego seeks to be completed at a future point and therefore seeks to gain stuff to achieve that aim.
Love (who you are) is already whole and therefore needs nothing in a spiritual sense.
Mike Kinnaird — October 15, 2008
Neediness is a sense of lacking, of incompleteness.
anon — October 15, 2008
Whilst I am sometimes egotistical. I feel complete with her. Thank you Mike. I feel a lot better after talking to you. I just want to capitalize on this feeling and feel like this always
God bless
Mike Kinnaird — October 15, 2008
Thank you. You are most welcome :-)
Tyler Jones — October 15, 2008
mike! whats happening brother?
hey ive gotten everything pretty much sorted out, i went to the psychologist and talked to him, he said that i just need to use the “thought stopping” process although at the time i latched onto it and it bothered me of course and was a habit it still lingers here and there but i just think thats becuase i had it as a habit for so long, now all i can do is ignore it and stop it as well as letting time take place and that does alot as well..it was funny because he said it was totally normal i just need to not think things like that, becuase at this age (18) the mind is going to transformations and is maturing, this also includes my stress and anxiety levels as well, its all really interesting but at the same time i need to not over analyze things so much (atleast do not analyze the bad things) cuz then that just continues to escalade and turns into something that isnt true, ive found out alot from him and ive gone through this week and last week pretty well and normal lol, he also asked me if it was effecting my daily life such as school, friends, etc. i said at first it did but now it was just there, he went through things that stuck to his mind for some weeks but over time it begins to disapear, but like i said it comes here and there but that just means i worry to much about it (just ignore) lol
Mike Kinnaird — October 16, 2008
Hey Tyler!
Oh that’s absolutely wonderful! My friend (in the article) was also seeing a psychologist for many years. Sometimes it’s great to hear the same truth from a few places. It helps us to believe that truth.
Yes I think maturity is a big part of it too. A little girl I know is scared of skeletons in the alley way. I used to see faces in my bedroom curtains that would scare me to death!
Thanks so much for writing in. I get concerned sometimes about people who write in in a bad state of mind and then I don’t hear from them any more and I just want to know they’re OK.
What you’ve learned about thoughts will be with you for life and it’s powerful stuff to know. As well as protecting you from damaging ideas that could become monsters you’ll also know that thinking actually creates you, in a way.
What you put your attention to is what ends up in your brain — your map that represents reality.
Thanks again for your upbeat message. It was lovely to hear from you!
Mike.
anon — October 16, 2008
Hi Mike. I’m having unwanted thoughts again. Just relating to her physique. Or her looks, however you wanna put it. She is utterly gorgeous but my mind is almost mocking her and putting these untrue thoughts which I know for certain aren’t true. I can’t stand this, why can’t it just go away. I tried to distract myself, I did that for a bit but then it just got harder. And the thoughts are growing. I got an exam tomorrow and I’m stressing out about that and also my mind is going haywire about X. And we had like the perfect day today, I don’t know what to do. It just seems to latch onto good things.
Please help
Mike Kinnaird — October 16, 2008
Hi Anon,
I know you’re having a tough time at the moment. I think the stress of your exams is the major factor.
I do know people who, when under pressure, will attack other people psychologically — a bit like your mocking of x.
I think it’s a primitive defence mechanism.
As I said before, the stress response, the physiological state of stress is not good for rationality.
Keep to the program and just get through this difficult time with as must dignity as you can. As you said, you and x had a great day — so it ain’t all bad.
Recognize the thoughts as garbage, as a primitive knee-jerk reaction to the stress you’re under.
I notice my brain will sometimes produce these mocking, culturally conditioned thoughts — triggered by something I see for example.
Trust your heart and not your thoughts.
Keep ignoring unwanted thoughts and focus on getting through your exams. Don’t make them important. Just see them for what they are and release them. That’s all.
I’m sure things will settle once your exams are done.
Mike
anon — October 16, 2008
I guess it’s just because it’s her, you know? She’s one of the greatest things going for me in my life. She means the world to me. It just hurts because they thoughts are suggesting that what I’m thinking is the truth, when it’s not at all. And I know that, it’s just hard because it just latches onto really small things. Like if she wears her hair in a ‘bad’ way or something really stupid like that. I think this is the thought that started it all. So I’m trying to get through it as best as I can, but it’s really hurting.
Mike Kinnaird — October 16, 2008
Hi Anon,
I totally understand really I do but I also think that things are much better than you realize.
You are seeing the thoughts as “not you” already. And that’s a great thing. Many folks believe their thoughts are them. They are identified with every thought so that’s a much bigger problem.
The thoughts themselves are likely to be culturally conditioned. By that I mean you’ve learned to mock peoples imperfections by picking it up from peers and perhaps family.
The stress of your exams is playing into this too and also it’s a slim possibility that part of you is sabotaging the relationship because of unconscious fears relating to it.
A lot of the thought generation process is reactive. There is no intelligence in it. To be free of the conditioned mind you have to be able to recognize it as “not you” — you got that part down and then choose something different.
That means withdrawing attention from conditioned reactive thought loops.
View thoughts as information. Just information you can choose to pay attention to or not. All your power is in choosing the focus of your attention.
I like to play visualization games too to reprogramme unwanted thoughts — like wrapping them up in fine silk till I can’t “see” them anymore. Then it explodes into a billion tiny pieces and floats of into the sky… or something like that :-)
Or I may morph it into a ball and catapult it into oblivion.
Or I may just say “thanks for that, but I don’t want or need any more thoughts like that — you can stop telling me about that.”
It might sound crazy to talk to your own mind but I reckon it help. You’re feeding your subconscious mind with ideas about what you do want it to tell you about.
When these mocking thoughts come, try to laugh about it. That’s about the level of importance you should give them. X sounds like a wonderful person and it truly is laughable that she should be mock for a hair style.
You know that, I know it. So don’t take these thoughts seriously. Laugh them off, catapult them into oblivion and think about something else.
It’s a powerful process once you learn it but it’s early days. It’s simple yes but not always easy. Don’t be too hard on yourself.
Soon, the exams will be done and I’m sure things will settle down too.
Keep in touch.
Mike.
anon — October 17, 2008
Thanks once again Mike. It’s just hard cause they seem so important. Like I had one earlier today about whether I really want to be with her or not. And that hurts to some extent, I suppose. It fills me with a sense of doubt. The strength of them and like the nature of them make them seem important. When I know they’re not. I’ve discarded them and basically said these thoughts are coming in due to factors like tiredness, exhaustion etc. I just seem to latch on to very small things, that’s all, which I’d rather not think about.
I wanna keep going, I don’t wanna give up or give in to thoughts. Because essentially they’re not me. They are just putting things in my mind which I don’t need. And I just really wanna go back to when I didn’t have any bad thoughts. It’s obvious none of it is true.. Simply because I’ve had SO many thoughts about varying people. It’s just creating doubt, and it just really hurts. Because they hurt, I feel the need to combat them with good thoughts.. when I really need to ignore them. Just sometimes they’ll cross my mind and inbed in there for a bit.
anon — October 17, 2008
I guess I just need to be reminded that the thoughts aren’t me. They aren’t true, and they certaintly aren’t wanted. I just need that constant reassurance until it goes at the moment.
I just need to know that if I keep doing what I’m doing - ignoring them; that they will subside. I just hate them getting ingrained in my brain - creating doubt and making me think something is the truth.
anon — October 17, 2008
Also, (sorry to write again) I’ve had a thought again about the balance between physical and non-physical intimacy in relationships. In terms of how much time spent doing one or the other. I don’t want to analyse such a silly thing. As we spend plenty of time talking and sharing and whatnot. We also spend time being intimate. I don’t want to analyse a ‘balance’ or whatever. I just want to go with the flow, and stop creating such stupid doubt.
Mike Kinnaird — October 17, 2008
Hi Anon,
I think you’re right… it’s tiredness and exhaustion and stress. As a dad, I see the power of a bad nights sleep in my son’s behavior. The “quality” of his thoughts goes from one extreme to another.
From an angel to a little demon!!
It’s the same person but the tiredness is behind the behavior.
Of course, small children don’t have the same control as adults but adults are not immune to “not checking enough health boxes.”
The solution to unwanted thoughts “in the moment” is always to observe and choose — remove attention from unwanted thoughts. But the quality of thoughts and your ability to choose is SERIOUSLY affected by your state of health and specifically your biochemical state — which of course is caused by your lifestyle.
Lack of sleep and lack of food causes kids to throw a wobbler. Same for adults too!
With regards intimacy, you’re right again… go with the flow and not so much analysis. Take on more of the attitude “whatever happens is ok.”
This attitide is more likely to make everything ok because you’ll stop trying to control every little thing. Nor do you need to control every little thing… just your stuff, your choices.
Mike.
anon — October 18, 2008
The more I trample negative thoughts, the easier it will be to think about X. Would you say this is a fair statement? Currently I’m almost stamping them out, and they then remain on my conscience a bit. Then when I try to think good thoughts or just general thoughts about X, I’m almost scared negative thoughts will latch onto that. Because they are making me doubt if I’m not immediately thinking in a positive manner about her. There’s all the issue of reassurance. Cuase when I’m away from her my mind often gets boggling.
It just seems once I’ve subsided those thoughts, there’s always a little bit of doubt left, sort of planning to cling onto something or other.
I just need to know what to do one I’ve let these thoughts subside temporarily.
Mike Kinnaird — October 18, 2008
Hi Anon,
“The more I trample negative thoughts, the easier it will be to think about X. Would you say this is a fair statement?”
The more your mind is calm, the easier it will be to think consciously and deliberately.
You don’t need to be vigilant against unwanted negative thoughts coming back or attaching. That’s giving them more attention. You’re keeping half an eye on them.
Tramping is fine btw, but not suppression… because suppression is a constant “holding down” and that means giving it attention.
Yes, thoughts and feelings often linger a while. Same program — don’t give the remnants more attention.
Instead of focusing on thinking positive thoughts, focus on no-thinking. Create gaps in the constant mental babble.
Distract and reshape remember?
Always come back to your shape… your center. A place of no-thought where there is only intense awareness. The only place where you can “smell the roses.”
Mike.
anon — October 18, 2008
Sorry, I didn’t get what you meant by not thinkng positive thoughts? You mean I shouldn’t be spending time thinking good thoughts about X? Because it doesn’t seem too logical. Sorry could you go over that bit again.
Thanks
Mike Kinnaird — October 18, 2008
I mean you don’t need to constantly think positive thoughts about x in order to control and manipulate the situation or how you feel about her.
It’s simpler than that.
Keep your shape (let go of everything) and see what comes up.
If it’s unwanted then ignore it. If it’s wanted then give it a bit of attention or enjoy it but it’s also ok to just let go of positive stuff.
It’s that simple. No need to cling.
anon — October 18, 2008
Okay, I get what you’re saying. It just sort of raises questions.. like when can I think about X? When I’m in a good place with no negative thoughts at all?
Mike Kinnaird — October 18, 2008
You can think what you like, when you like if that’s your choice.
What we don’t want is choiceless thinking or clinging.
Mike Kinnaird — October 18, 2008
Does that make sense? If you want to give me a specific example I may be able to explain it better.
anon — October 18, 2008
No that’s fine. It makes sense. I’d just prefer to be positive and clingy, rather than dwelling constantly on negatives and untrue thoughts.
Could you possibly write up a 5-10 step method of what I need to do to get back to my old self? Just so it’s clear and concise.
Thank you.
anon — October 18, 2008
Just currently it feels like I sometimes force positive thoughts to come in. And there’s nothing wrong with that right? I do let them flow often, but occasionally I need those forced positive thoughts to remind me of how great I have it, and that there’s nothing to fear.
Back before this all began, I didn’t force these feelings as much. It just feels when I’m in this sort of state.. that if I don’t have some outlet for positive thoughts once in a while, that negative thoughts will impersonate the truth.
Mike Kinnaird — October 18, 2008
1. Look after your lifestyle. Get enough, sleep, exercise, good food etc.
2. Stay in your “shape.” Your grounded place is a place of no-thought, a state of “let-go-ness.” Make sure there are gaps between thoughts. Stay centered. From here you can choose to think what you like.
3. When thoughts come up, make a quick choice — “do i pay attention to this or not.”
4. If not, distract yourself by intensely focusing on an external object (whist repeating the sarcred incantation “blah blah blah blah” or “shhhhhh” to drown out the unwanted thought).
5. Go to number two.
Mike Kinnaird — October 18, 2008
“Just currently it feels like I sometimes force positive thoughts to come in.”
Hmmm my gut feeling is it’s ok and long as it’s not trying to cling. Dwelling on happy thoughts is a very nice thing to do. But keep going back to your place of no-thought. The gaps are important!
Mike Kinnaird — October 18, 2008
Like we said before, I think your current situation is feeding all this (tiredness, exams etc) so really that needs to be addressed before it will be resolved.
Do you have a lot of caffeine?
anon — October 18, 2008
I understand entirely about the gaps. That way I’m living in the moment more. I just want to treasure every moment and not analyse so much.
I never really have caffeine. I dislike soft drinks and coffee is a one off treat from the local Starbucks haha.
James Riddett — October 18, 2008
Hi Anon,
I’m James Riddett, I’m Mike’s brother and partner on Habit Guide. I hope you don’t mind me chipping in but I might be able to shed more light.
I think everything Mike has told you is fantastic advice. What you need to do is very simple but I know it’s not always easy.
You’re suffering from being dominated by thought. I was exactly the same for years at school. My head was constantly full of mental problems and scenarios and ‘what ifs’. It drove me crazy…
I learned to ‘reset’ my mind — that was how if felt to me.
It was like.. ‘ok… just relax and reset. Start again from zero.’ And I had to do it MANY times before I got the amazing peace of mind that I enjoy these days.
Keep doing it and be patient. No stress, don’t rush it.
At the moment, you’re trying to fight fire with fire. This is completely understandable — I did the exact same thing.
You’re trying to come to a mental conclusion to what’s troubling you. You’re trying to ‘work it out’ mentally. Your mind believes there is a complex, logical formula that — when you hit it — will give you the answer. And when you have it, you’ll be happy and free from unwanted thoughts.
But you CAN’T resolve it logically. It’s not a math problem.
Because it’s the endless thinking that IS the problem. I know this may sounds hard to believe, but I promise it’s the truth. The answer is to actually get your mind to shut the **** up! :)
It’s your mind’s endless chatter and ‘what if this’ and ‘what if there’s some truth in that?’ that’s bringing you down and making you feel so bad.
I have an empty head most of the time. That may not sound like an ideal state, but I promise you it is. It allows you to choose your thoughts, and when they arise on their own, you can choose which ones to give attention. I DO get dark thoughts very occasionally, but they get no attention from me and disappear quickly.
I’m also very careful what I feed my mind… no horror movies, not too depressing news on TV and so-on.
I believe the answer for you is very simple. And I know Mike will back me up on this. Concentrate on giving yourself the healthiest lifestyle you can. Again, it may feel like a bit of a leap of faith, but I promise you it will help a LOT.
Also, if you get into meditation, or just spend a few minutes a day being quiet and still, and watching your thoughts, you’ll feel the control coming back to you.
I also recommend my little method of ‘resetting’ your mind when you want to. It’s probably very similar to what you describe as ‘reshaping’ which is a lovely image.
At the moment, you’re fighting fire with fire — you’re trying to get rid of thoughts by firing more thoughts at them.
Concentrate on resetting your mind when needed, meditating and living as healthily as possible and I promise, you’ll feel the control coming back…
Keep doing that and one day, you’ll be amazed at how troubled your mind used to be. You’ll be amazed that you spent so long worrying about things. :)
Hope this helps.
Best wishes,
James
anon — October 18, 2008
Thanks very much James for your insight. It’s exactly right in terms of the complex formula. I don’t know why I continue to analyse. Just part of me thinks magically I’m gonna strike the hidden pot of gold or the hidden answer.
When you say - ’start again from zero’ - I’ve been doing that to some extent by combatting the thoughts with a simple ‘You know the truth, this thought isn’t real’. Unfortunately I begin to expand on that and I start to get stuck in a constant fight with my mind. Just again - ’start again from zero’, is that just saying.. those thoughts aren’t real; try and gain a clear head? Are you saying I shouldn’t fire positive thoughts at all at those negative ones? And just ignore till it subsides? Just sometimes I need a bit of a reassurance or a wakeup call that it’s not real and its not the truth, you know?
I know I am making some progress, slowly but surely. I just don’t want to backfire like last time and give in - thinking wrongly that they are the truth. I’ve been doing a lot more exercise, and getting to bed early. Meditation is a little tough to get used to. Just getting into the habit of watching my thoughts with no judgement is the key though.
I came up with a little saying to say to myself; - ‘Even the worst and most damaging storm eventually subsides’. What do you think?
I just want to thank you and Mike once again. This blog has been terrific in getting my mind in a better state. I feel I’m slowly but surely making my way towards how I used to be. I’m sorry for clogging it up with my endless posts! But it’s just about reassurance, you know?
God bless.
Mike Kinnaird — October 18, 2008
Hi Anon,
Don’t worry about “clogging” the post. That’s the beauty of blogs — it’ll help other folks who have similar issues but are maybe too shy to comment.
“Just getting into the habit of watching my thoughts with no judgement is the key though.”
That’s it in a nutshell. This positive thought thing hasn’t been sitting right with me and now I know why.
You’re making it into a battle and that is fuelling the process.
Another way to look at this is that you always have a focus and you should know what that focus is. Say your walking, then just focus on walking — I think your counsellor mentioned mindfulness if I remember correctly.
Once you know what your focus is you have a frame of reference… an anchor.
Then it’s easier to notice an attention shift.
When you have “stormy waters” then you need a big effort to hold you attention onto what you want.
But then it’s gets quiet, then it’s easy to do.
But a brilliant question to ask yourself is “where is my attention.”
In stormy waters it’s good to have an external focus or at least into your body and away from your head. Too much head attention makes it more difficult for the storm to go away. You are feeding it with energy because energy follows attention.
Positive thoughts are not really the goal because every positive thought automatically contains it’s negative opposite as a frame of reference.
But who you really are — beyond thinking is the “good which has no opposite.”
That is allowed to shine when your full attention is in the flow of the present moment.
Watching with no judgement means there has to be space between you and thought and that is what you want. The awareness in that space already knows the quality of the thought before you make it into words so you don’t really need to.
Watching for thoughts with no judgement. That is a perfect plan.
Mike Kinnaird — October 18, 2008
Oh and excellent job getting your lifestyle on track. It’s massive that. Keep trying with meditation. 5 mins here and there is a good start. You don’t need to make it a big deal.
Mike Kinnaird — October 18, 2008
If you want to counter it with something… try the sacred incantation I mentioned… “blah blah blah” :-)
Mike Kinnaird — October 18, 2008
Anon,
Another musing for you about the positive thoughts thing. I think the mind is a better servant by focusing on creating desired outcomes rather than a random positive thought generator.
Thinking should be largely creative, purposeful and practical and the joy of life left largely to be-ing or not-thinking.
James Riddett — October 18, 2008
Hi anon, James again.
Mike has followed on from your reply and I would definitely agree with him about the whole ‘positive’ thought thing.
Don’t get me wrong, being grateful for what you have in life is a great habit to be in. But you’re using positive thoughts almost like ammo, firing them off at the negative stuff and hoping it’ll cancel them out.
I agree with Mike. I don’t think that approach will win out for you in the long run because it implies there’s a battle between your ‘light’ thoughts and ‘dark’ thoughts. With you fighting on the ‘light’ side. :)
What you’re aiming for is NO thought. That doesn’t mean walking around like a zombie of course :) It just means that you have control over what you think about, it’s your decision what’s going on your head.
My ‘reset’ technique was what eventually allowed me to clear my head and take back complete control of my thoughts.
When I say ’start again from zero’ I’m talking about deliberately clearing your mind of all thoughts. This is tricky at first, but if you can do it for several seconds, take a moment to enjoy the stillness. Just ‘be’ in that place, be ‘present’ with nothing else distracting your head… Nice isn’t it? :)
It’ll get easier to do.
If you feel like it’s even too much to still your mind completely, even for a few seconeds, try tucking yourself away into a room somewhere and just sit and watch your thoughts for 5 or 10 minutes.
Don’t ‘move into’ your thoughs, don’t ‘become’ them. Just watch. Be aware that there is ‘you’ and ‘your thoughts’ — 2 things.
You’re separate from your thoughts, so you know they no longer have direct control over you. Because you can CHOOSE. If you’re happy to keep doing that, you can start inserting bigger and bigger gaps between thoughts.
Once you have the power back, you can choose your thoughts and choose whether or not to give attention to thoughts that arise on their own.
Remember — thoughts only EVER have power when you feed them attention. Thoughts have ZERO power without your attention.
~ James
anon — October 18, 2008
You say that I’m almost using positive thoughts as ammo.. It just feels a bit hard because I like being able to think about her. Just currently the negative thoughts are attacking those good thoughts. I’m really getting wound up in my head today. It could have been just today, but I was feeling better about the whole situation until X, my best mate and his girlfriend, and some family friends came around. It was just really hard to concentrate and stay with no thoughts because my mind was latching onto things as they happened.
I guess something I’m really struggling with is the truth. I’m constantly having to remind myself that what I’m thinking isn’t the truth at all. I’ve broken up with X two times, and we still got back together. I’ve also been having such bad thoughts about other people. Before I got in such an overanalytical state of mind, I never had any of these. It’s just the strength of thoughts is so powerful it’s making me confused over what is, and what isn’t the truth. You know the expression - truth hurts? I’m just getting these horrid ‘what if’s’ over whether what I’m thinking is true, and that to get over it I need to severe ties. It’s just so painful having this run through my head. It’s just really hurting my heart. I can have a really great day with her, with few thoughts and then BAM, another day comes along where I’ve got a lot of negative thoughts and I just latch onto them.
I just need to know basically, that what’s in my mind isn’t the truth. That it’s just a distortion of the truth based on my overanalysing thoughts. Part of me really fears it is all true. I really fear that. And it’s hurting so much because I just want to go back to a month or two ago when everything was perfect. Like I know it’s possible to lose feelings for someone - but I’ve broken up with X twice.. and we still got back together. That’s got to count for something right? As well as the negative thoughts for other people. It’s got to mean it’s not the truth..
That paragraph I just wrote is what I’m going over every single day. It’s hard to just let it go.. Because it hurts me so much. I keep telling myself/my heart keeps telling me that I know I want to be with X, and these thoughts are just garbage. It’s just really distorting things right now. I’m really scared that it’s going to consume me and I won’t feel anything for her anymore. Because at the moment, I’m constantly having to tell myself I do feel for her. That I do want to be her BF.
I just GAHHHHHHHHH. This is so unbelivably torturous.
anon — October 18, 2008
I just feel so hopeless. I can feel the thoughts telling me to break it off..
Fuck
anon — October 18, 2008
At the moment, I’m telling myself things like - remember back at so-and-so’s party. You can have that again. Because you know thats true. I don’t want to dwell on the past too much, but it’s nice to have a goal I want to aim for. I really just want to enjoy every little moment, and not let my mind wander. I failed at that to some extent today. And it’s sorta put me back abit. It’s almost like.. backing up what the thoughts are saying.
anon — October 18, 2008
Would you say that once these negative thoughts are gone, I’ll be able to see more clearly of the truth. The real truth. The truth that me and X are to be together. It’s just funny how one little thought can escalate into so much. And it’s also funny how you can have such a good experience one day, and then a completely opposite one the next.
Mike Kinnaird — October 19, 2008
Hi Anon,
Hmmmm things are a little clearer now you’re talking specifics. From what you said before, it seems you know what you want — to be with x. That’s what’s in your heart.
What a choice to have between 2 great things — being with x or partying with whoever you like. Is this the main dilemma for you? That you’ll lose out?
Of course you can’t have both, that wouldn’t be fair to x so you have to choose.
Why not just see how it goes? You’re not committed for life or anything. Why not just say I’m going to be with x and I’ll think about it again in the new year.
Then once you have made you decision, any thoughts can be measured to that. Thoughts not in alignment with your choice will soon die away if you are committed to you decision.
Seems you are giving you mind mixed messages because you haven’t made a choice.
Sometimes, if with have 2 options it can be really hard :-) I think the hardest choices are the 50/50 ones. The ones where they have equal weight.
But anyway, seems to me you want x. Commit to that and you’ll see all this other stuff go away.
Also, there is such a thing as paralysis by analysis. Making a decision will often throw things into a new light.
If you can’t choose, imagine I said you can only have x and not be with other girls for 6 months at least. How do you feel about that?
Now, what if I said you can’t have x — you can party and be with whoever. How do you feel about that?
Compare the feelings of each question and maybe you’ll get a clearer answer.
Also, maybe if you’re stressing with exams, you feel overloaded and therefore want to end a relationship which you feel is more than you can handle? I don’t know about that one but maybe it’s a possibility in your case.
The other thing is — sometimes it’s ok to be confused. At the moment you’re with x… why upset the status quo until you are clear you want something else?
Relax, it’s ok to not know what you want sometimes. It’s ok to be confused.
Make a solid decision… see what happens.
anon — October 19, 2008
I don’t want to party out with other girls. I just want X. I just want to go back to a month ago and fix this. I can’t stand feeling guilty and comparing at every single thought.
My god I can’t do this anymore. Like this. It’s too much of a struggle.
Mike Kinnaird — October 19, 2008
Oh your problem is now very easy and simple
Anything thought that does not align with your choice… ignore it. BE QUICK about it.
You are currently dwelling and as you say that escalates it.
Mike Kinnaird — October 19, 2008
ohhhhh I feel so light and relieved. I understand you fully now I think.
This is simple for you anon.
anon — October 19, 2008
If it’s so simple and easy why can’t I do it? I’m pathetic.
I have one goal.. that’s to be with X without these thoughts. And currently the negative ones are attacking constantly things about our relationship and her as well obviously. It hurts so much. I’m glad I didn’t do anything stupid on the highway before. I can’t believe how close I was..
I just can’t see a way out at the moment. I feel so pathetic and weak.
Mike Kinnaird — October 19, 2008
Hmmm sorry, shouldn’t have said easy… but it is simple :-) I was just so relieved because I wasn’t clear that you were so clear about what you wanted.
Now I know you are, it is very simple. NOT easy (at first) but very simple.
Remember James said earlier “Thoughts have ZERO power without you attention.”
So you are free now to not believe these thoughts. No, they aren’t true. I wasn’t clear on that before because I didn’t have enough detail to go on.
When an unwanted thought comes you can trample it as you said. Don’t get into these endless toing and froing debates. It’s simpler than that.
What do you do if someone is talking and you don’t want to listen? You stick your fingers in your ears and say “arrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh” and drown it out. You can do that with these thoughts.
Don’t let them into your mental space. You can drown them out with “blah, blah, blah.” or whatever.
Don’t engage or analyse at ALL.
You need to be 100% clear about this. NO ATTENTION whatsoever to unwanted thoughts. Drown them out, whatever you want just NO ATTENTION.
You’ll be amazed how quickly this can go away once you’re clear abou the process.
Don’t despair anon. OK? This will be ok.
anon — October 19, 2008
I hope so. I just need this to go away. This is really affecting me, especially today. Like I haven’t felt this low in a long long time.
I’m just making links between things and it’s so frustrating. And also comparing other girls with X. It hurts so much. My god
anon — October 19, 2008
Is a way to combat the feeling about other girls.. just to say ‘I don’t need that thought and that sure there are girls who are more attractive than X, but what me and X have is so special and unique that she is all I need’? Is that something I should be saying?
I’m having so much trouble ignoring at the moment. Gahhhh
Mike Kinnaird — October 19, 2008
Yes, I think it’s good to get clear. And I totally agree with what you said there — that it doesn’t matter how attractive other girls are.
But you don’t need to repeat the process once you’re clear.
You could see an attractive girls and think “wow, she’s gorgeous, and move on.” No harm in that. But to continue a line of thought related to that thought isn’t needed.
Let stuff come and go and choose to pay attention or not.
I think for now you should keep it really simple to get some sanity back.
No attention to any thought relating to this subject. Keep it nice and simple. Say for a week or two weeks. No mental discussion on any thought relating to this subject.
Thoughts will still come up because you have given this some momentum but it will naturally subside when you stop paying attention.
You have to be totally clear about what I just said — what you need to do — the process.
Are you 100% clear?
anon — October 19, 2008
I know the process, it’s just so incredibly difficult to keep myself distracted at the moment.
I know the thoughts aren’t real but they appear so important..
Mike Kinnaird — October 19, 2008
Yes they can appear important — I suspect because you’ve given them a sense of importance when all this started.
You mind thinks it’s helping you by reminding you of what you told it was important!
Do the opposite when these thoughts come — give them a sense of no importance. “oh that’s just the old problem — nothing to worry about.”
Don’t have to keep saying that — just attach the attitude.
If you are in a place where you’re totally enmeshed and can’t see a way out, then just scream mentally “arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh”
Then listen to see if it’s gone quiet.
If not.. “arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhhhh”
again.
Make it quiet.
Then… deal with stuff as it comes up.
If a thought comes that is to do with this subject — attach no importance and ignore QUICKLY.
It’s a simple process. Get really clear about the process and just do it.
Mike Kinnaird — October 19, 2008
oh… you don’t have to keep yourself distracted. That is supression. You are tying to “hold it down.” That feeds it.
You make it quiet and relax.
Then you deal with stuff AS IT COMES.
Mike Kinnaird — October 19, 2008
I want you to be clear…
Blocking, tramping, ignoring, drowning out is ok.
Not supression… don’t hold it down because that needs your attention… you automatically hold onto the part you are holding down. If that makes sense?
Mike Kinnaird — October 19, 2008
another point of clarity…
As I said you deal with stuff as it comes BUT you don’t watch for it coming.
Just get on with your life.
when you become aware of an unwanted thought, you can then instantly recognize it as unwanted and ignore it immediately.
Hope that’s clear :-)
Mike Kinnaird — October 19, 2008
yet another point of clarity… sorry :-)
The method… ignore or drown out depends on the ugrency and intensity of the thought.
As things settle… ignoring is all you need.
But where you are now may need something more… scream, block, trample… don’t let these thoughts into you mental space once you become aware of them.
Mike Kinnaird — October 21, 2008
Anon,
Because we’ve had quite a long chat about your situation, I re-read it all this morning to make sure there were no “muddy waters” or points of confusion.
I noticed a couple of issues…
You said you tell your mind “Don’t think about other girls.” Your mind doesn’t hear “don’t” it only hears “think about other girls” so that’s a biggie you need to be aware of.
The other bit of mud was I agreed that watching with no judgement is the perfect plan. Watching is great of course and not judging in the sense that you accept that “this is the thought that arrived.”
There still needs to be choice in whether you pay more attention or not.
Just wanted to clear these points up.
Not heard from you for a day or two. I really hope everything is ok.
Mike.
anon — October 21, 2008
Hi there. Things are getting a bit better. Yesterday I had the best day I’ve had since I began getting these thoughts. I took X out and we had a really lovely day shopping and whatnot.
I talked to my counsellor the day before in order to combat these negative thoughts. Ignoring seems a bit hard, so it made it seem a bit easier and clearer to me to do the complete opposite of what the negative thoughts are telling me to do. I.e. recently I’ve been putting X under the microscope in terms of looks. So my counsellor said in order for the thought of that to go away - I refuse to look at that particular part of the body - full stop. Not just X’s. Because that way, it gets no attention and eventually will subside. It’s really ridiculous in the nature of these thoughts, as I analyse things which I never ever made note of before. I know they aren’t real. It’s just my state of mind, and as long as I ignore it, my mind will eventually go back to normal where her body never bothered me in the slightest. In fact, I thought it was amazingly hot haha. I still do, but with negative thoughts in the way it’s very frustrating.
I think where I’m really falling over; is my ability to ignore thoughts. Today for example, I thought a bad thought - one which I never wnated to enter my mind. It popped up; got me down 10 minutes, then it subsided. I’v had a few of these today which are unwanted and have no truth to them. My main problem is, I’ll sit down after all this in a quiet spot.. and I’ll almost disect the thought’s from earlier. Whilst I can shut them out in the short term I find it very hard to distract myself several hours later. I find this happens, particulary when I am at home.
Mike Kinnaird — October 22, 2008
Hi Anon,
It’s really a great sign that you had your “best day since it all began.”
That means what you’re doing is making a difference so keep doing it and it will eventually go away.
I also think it’s wonderful how you’re dealing with all this — seeing your councellor, taking advice, being proactive. It’s really wonderful.
I had actually planned to mention to you, something similar to what your councellor has said — the strategy to ignore a body part for example. This is basically a pact, or decision you make about what thoughts are allowed and what are not.
In my friends case for example, we identified 3 allowable thoughts and the other hundreds of disfunctional thoughts were not allowed i.e. to be ignored. This makes it very quick and simple when a thought comes — if it’s not one of the 3 allowed thoughts then distract and reshape.
I don’t want to muddy the waters anymore for you because you seem to understand what needs to be done BUT…
Earlier you said you wanted a step by step plan. Well I can’t believe I didn’t think of this, but the perfect plan is actually in my eBook Habit Guide, which I will happily let you have free-of-charge.
It’s 7 steps laid out as a flowchart that shows you how to NOT do something. In your case, stop thinking negative thoughts. It’s the perfect process. You could even print it and discuss it with your councellor.
It would help you get really clear. But as I said, seems like you are already getting on top so it’s up to you of course.
I will happily talk you through each step privately by email. Let me know if you’d like to do this.
The fact that you thought x was so hot, and still do I think is great for showing these negative thoughts for what they are. And that’s going to help you let go of them.
I’m really happy you had your best day! Do keep in touch at least to say you’re ok, because otherwise I get concerned :-)
Mike
Mike Kinnaird — October 22, 2008
Oh yes I forgot… the quiet times and dissecting thoughts. You nedd a simple meditation technique — a focus. Talk it through with you councellor to see what s/he recommends. Zen breath counting is probably the simplest.
You need a focus or you have no anchor — no frame of reference and then you’re basically drifting or floating around.
anon — October 23, 2008
Hi there Mike.
I’m in a bad way at the moment and I’ve lost some of the progress I made on Tuesday. Basically the thoughts came piling down on me, and made me feel that I couldn’t be with X anymore. It almost made me break up with her. I spoke my mind, telling her that I was getting this immense doubt, like which had happened before. She didn’t take it too well; and during our conversation I almost gave in to the thoughts. She said to call her when I knew what was in my mind. I rung her around an hour later after some thought - because I felt so horrible inside that I had ruined everything and that I may have lost her. I asked her to give me another chance - which she did - but she told me it’s my last one, for the moment. She told me earlier yesterday that she doesn’t think I’m well enough for a relationship, and that it was easier being best friends. She also said that she felt sad that to be her I need a counsellor..
At the moment, the false and negative thoughts are really clouding my view of whether I want to be with her or not. It’s making me think they are true. They are really intense at the moment and it’s really difficult. I keep thinking about them because I think they may have some truth to them. Sure, being best friends with her would have some benefits; but I don’t wanna stop being bf/gf. It’s really paining my mind at the moment; I need this to go. I’ve tried to ignore it but it’s continuously getting stronger. I guess breaking it off seems like my only route of escape. But I’ve tried it twice already, and the thoughts still linger around.. and also I still had the strong feelings for her.
I need to know these thoughts aren’t true and that they have no basis of truth. I need that reassurance that they aren’t true. They just are so strong at the moment, i feel so hopeless
Mike Kinnaird — October 24, 2008
Hi Anon,
I think you need to let go of the whole problem. You said you wanted to “get back” to the time before all this. Well at the time you didn’t have all this mental toing and froing. The thoughts weren’t there. In other words you have to forget there is even a problem.
You’ve created some momentum with these thoughts so they will continue a while but you just have to ignore them.
You gotta get tough with your own mind! Yes or no to thoughts.
Be very firm when you need to be. Imagine you mind is like an out-of-control toddler. Once you make a decision, you follow through no matter how much it “kicks and screams.”
Decide to be with x for the next month with no thinking about it. Then after one month you will review it.
Let it all go. Forget there is a problem.
If thoughts try to come in that go against that decision, BE FIRM say NO and give them NO ATTENTION.
Look to your heart for answers not your thoughts. Thoughts never have the truth because they are abstractions of life. They are conditioned by your past thoughts.
If the thoughts are powerfully demanding your attention, drown them out by mentally screaming, saying “shhhhhh” or “blah blah” or even singing.
I feel sad for x too. She must love you a lot. It can’t be nice to be told “I’m not sure whether I want to be with you.”
Really — make a decision. One month. No thoughts, then a review after a month.
Follow through with your decision mentally. Don’t allow these thoughts attention. Say NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO when they come up but don’t watch for them coming.
When I say look to you heart — I mean put your attention there! And feel it. Learn to listen to what your heart is saying. Do it a lot. Move attention away from your head and thinking and into your heart. Make it a habit.
Thoughts aren’t true.
Make a solid decision to stop this and follow through with committment. Be clear about the “rules.” and enforce them.
James Riddett — October 24, 2008
Hi Anon,
I chatted with Mike this morning and I remember a little more info on my ‘reset’ technique.
I remembered that part of the ‘reset’ thing I did was that I would also then install how I wanted to be.
So for me it would be something like: ‘Right, reset, start again from here… I’m happy, confident and I don’t worry about what everyone else thinks’ or words to that effect.
You see my personal problem was a lack of confidence and worrying about what other people thought of me WAY too much.
This technique of stating your desired state as ‘current’ is actually part of Habit Guide itself. No surprises there — Mike knows what works ~ he’s bang on. :)
(by the way I would DEFINITELY take him up on his offer of a free Habit Guide, it could be the best thing you ever did ~ seriously)
It may sound goofy, but that technique really does work if you keep using it.
I saw it as ‘fake it til I make it’ at the time. I eventually became the person I told myself I was. Took a while of course but I was always moving forward.
This is the power of habit and conditioning! It’s massive.
So your equivalent, when overwhelmed with thoughts would be something like…
‘Ok, relax… reset… start again from here (here you deliberately try to clear your mind as best you can).
Then… ‘I’m happy, confident and in control. I love X and I’m blessed to be with her, every day.’ (then try to just sit with that feeling for a few seconds, enjoy it…)
Keep the statement to ONLY a description of how you WANT to be — no negatives. And important — state it in the present tense ~ you already have it. eg. ‘I’m happy’, not ‘I want to be happy’.
Again, I know it sounds a little goofy but if you keep doing this you’ll find you can stay as the person you want to be longer and longer each time.
Each time you get the unwanted thoughts, reset and re-state how you want to be as ‘current’.
~ James
anon — October 25, 2008
Thanks to both of you. It turned out that my little outburst of letting the thoughts in was just a temporary thing. We had an wonderful day the day after. Almost as good as the Tuesday. I find it really good when I’m with her, but when we’re not together it’s a lot easier for thoughts to enter into my mind.
I’ve had like a really really stupid thought - like I’m into modifying cars. I’m not sure if you know what a sleeper is .. but basically it’s a car that looks fairly stock and nothing out of the ordinary on the outside.. but under the bonnet it possesses mass amounts of power. I’m planning to build a sleeper over the next few years; just a project I want to embark on. Recently it’s been really good to think about to get rid of thoughts; or distract myself. But today a thought popped up that my sleeper car is like synonomous with X. To simplify it.. my mind is saying that she is ugly or unappealing; like the sleeper.. It really is a ridiculous thoughts. I just want it to go, so I can still pursue my project and still be with X. I know you may laugh at this thought; I am too almost. It really is stupid. Any ideas?
Mike Kinnaird — October 26, 2008
Great. Laughing at the thought is great because you’re seeing it for what it is.
How you feel when you’re together is the truth of it. Seems like you’re really getting on top of this Anon and it’s wonderful to see.
What’s beneath the bonnet is the important thing no? Both for cars AND humans :-)
anon — November 4, 2008
Hi there again guys.
Last week I was doing really well, but in the last few days things have just stuck around in my head abit. One thought which relaly annoyed me; was that I can’t remember what X looks like. Really stupid considering I see her just about every single day. I don’t know why but it really got stuck in my head. And when I looked at it, it was hard to see X’s face clearly in my head. You know when you know a person well - you can see their face very clearly in your head? It’s been harder lately to see her face. And I interpret that as something else. I hope this is making a bit of sense.. I think it’s just a combination of stress, tiredness and the thoughts. It’s really very strange to me. This was a couple of days ago now, but it’s just come back into my head. So to combat it I’ve been constantly looking at pictures of her etc. I’m really confused why my brain is acting up like this. I can’t remember entirely how my brain saw her before this thought popped up. It’s incredibly frustrating.
Hope you can shed some light on this. Thanks
anon — November 4, 2008
And another frustrating thought came in relating to not knowing what X sounds like. Like her voice. This is incredibly annoying. The problem is I don’t know what to do. Like I don’t have anything strong to combat it with.
Mike Kinnaird — November 5, 2008
Hi anon,
I´m away at the moment. I´ve only got very limited computer access at the hotel. I´ll be back on the 16th so I´ll be in touch then.
Cheers
Mike
Mike Kinnaird — November 19, 2008
Hi Anon,
How are things? I’m back now and settling into normality again :-)
A friend of mine recently mentioned the same thing as you funnily enough — that he couldn’t remember the face of someone very close to him.
It doesn’t mean anything — that you can’t recall the face or sound of X when you’re apart from her.
You’re right that the stress and tiredness is affecting all this. We mentioned it before. It’s massive!
By the way — what’s the situation with the exams? Are you finished with them now?
anon — November 21, 2008
Things would be a lot better if I lost this thought. I’ve been very up and down with it. Would you say the reason it continues to linger around is because she’s been clouded by my over analysing and by my putting her under the microscope? That’s what my counsellor said of it. The negative thoughts intepreted my not imagining her perfectly as though I was a bad boyfriend or that I didn’t like her or whatever. Very stupid. I just feel that if I lose this thought and/or am able to imagine her the way I want I will be invincible against every other negative thought. This is one which is hard to combat. Thoughts?
Mike Kinnaird — November 22, 2008
Hi Anon,
Remember the advice of your counselor a while back — to practice mindfulness? You actually said it helped you a lot too. You need to do more of that and “let go” of all this other stuff — the constant analyzing.
What you think about anything is not the truth but an abstraction. By constantly feeding a conceptual abstraction of life, you can more and more live in that “dream.”
The dream becomes more complex and more difficult to escape from the more you feed it.
Underlying all this is your belief that thinking will give you answers and give you control.
I used to believe that too. I was a “walking head” and all my attention was in my head. You need meditation and mindfulness to combat this dysfunctional habit.
I am not really good at visualizing people close to me at will. I don’t attach any importance to that whatsoever and neither should you.
There is nothing you need to hold on to, to make your relationship with X work out. Playing mental games like this or any other kind of mental abstractions will not improve your relationship or give you valuable information about it.
As I said in the article, you need space between “you” and thoughts. Ideally that space should always be there although in practical terms, that’s difficult to achieve ALL the time.
But do your best… “what am i feeling and thinking right now” is a good question that creates that space.
Observe thoughts and feelings from a distance.
Thoughts have no truth. They are information… some is useful, most is garbage if you’re anything like me. You need discrimination to sift the useful from the garbage. Don’t feed the garbage with more attention.
Keep your inner space quiet and see what thoughts come on their own and then apply discrimination as to whether to feed any thought with more attention or not.
Attention is your power and you can choose where to put it.
Get out of the madness that is constantly feeding a conceptual world view, relax, be very quiet and see what thoughts come up on there own, one by one.
This alone will improve your life about a million percent.
Thinking should always be a choice — not constant and not automatic. There is more information and better information in silence… strangely enough.
Mike
anon — November 22, 2008
Thanks once again Mike for a very lengthly and helpful response. I know before you said imagining someone at will is difficult for you - but sometimes I try and remember X’s face about 20 minutes after I see her and it’s like trying to cup water in my hands. The longer I go without seeing her it gets harder and harder. Even though I have plenty of photos my minds keeps telling me I have to imagine her perfectly in my head, or at least her face, with no assistance. I’m worried this is going to become part of me, even though I’ve gotten past it before.
Would you say it’s harder for me to imagine her the way I want because of my overanalytical thoughts which have clouded her?
Thanks once more.
Mike Kinnaird — November 22, 2008
Hi Anon,
I would let go of this thought — that you have to be able to imagine X perfectly in your mind. It means nothing whether you can do it or not.
What meaning do you think it has I wonder?
No, I don’t think the over analysis has anything to do with your ability to visualize a face. If you really want to do it, keep practicing.
But I suggest you forget all about the idea that your ability to do this means anything.
Same method — thought arrives, ignore thought, let it go and pay attention to something else. Repeat if necessary.
Mike.
Anon — December 22, 2008
Hi again Mike, it’s Anon.
For the last month or so, I’ve still been troubled with unwanted thoughts. I don’t have the time to write about my technique, but it’s not so simple as just ignore. Unforuntately I’ve been sort of looking at the thought, and dismissing it as quick as possible by giving a list of reasons why it’s not true.
Also for the last 3 weeks I’ve been away on holiday, without X. I’ve been able to contact X and we did every day throughout the time period. The first week was probably the best week I’ve had a while - on schoolies with some good mates. The next week after that began to get really tedious and for the last couple of nights my thoughts became really unbearable. I saw X yesterday and we had a lovely time. However I kept getting soem unwanted thoughts, and one ridiculous one is that I don’t love her anymore. It’s incredibly frustrating and what’s more frustrating is that my brain is considering that thought. I hate going through the paces of it, and it’s been very hard to distract myself from. Would you say it’s just an issue of not seeing X for so long? Just an issue of time and space? Because it’s Christmas we won’t be seeing eachother on such a day to day basis. I see her all day tomorrow but I keep getting this thoughts lingering along, amongst others; but they are easier to deal with. I’m so so tired of this.
Hope you can reassure me. Thank you. I can understand if it’s hard to write back over Christmas. As soon as, would be terrific.
Cheers
Mike Kinnaird — December 22, 2008
Hi Anon,
Seems to me that in the first week, when you were having a great time, you weren’t troubled by unwanted thoughts. You were distracted, not even aware there was a problem.
Then when things started to get tedious, the thoughts came back.
For this to go away, you have to forget there is a problem at all, or to put it better, there has to be no problem.
You make it into a problem when you feed it with your attention and start mental discussions about it.
If a thought comes that’s unwanted and not true… so what? As soon as you recognize that, just shift your attention onto something else. Let it go. Imagine it floating away inside a balloon or use some other mental imagery–clouds, whatever.
When you completely let a thought go, you are not aware of it anymore. Don’t keep even a tiny bit of your attention on it… look for it, discuss if it’s important or hold it down… like that first week… it’s just not there, in other words, your attention is onto other things, there is no problem.
Time and space? Irrelevant… more unwanted attention feeding this “problem.”
Anon — December 22, 2008
Thanks again for such a speedy reply.
Also there’s another thought - well a decision I guess, which Ineed your advice on. I saw X yesterday and for the last month or so she’s been complaining about her weight. It’s never been an issue for me as I love her body. She’s actualyl very skinny apart from a bit of baby fat on her belly. Unfortunately her talking about it sort of got it inside my head.
The thing is - I’ve been wanting to get more toned as well considering I’ve put on a bit of holiday weight. Would it have a negative impact, and feed the thought - if I asked her if she wants to exercise together for an hour everyday? I’m worried doing this may feed the thought. Thanks once more.
Anon — December 22, 2008
Note also she has gained a bit of weight over the holiday - as I have - but it’s never bothered me. I just want her to feel happy in her skin.
Anon — December 22, 2008
And when I say ‘a bit’ - it’s minimal.
I don’t know if it’s the unwanted thought which is making the exaggeration… Or.. I don’t know. I hope I make some sense.
Mike Kinnaird — December 22, 2008
Working out together sounds like a great idea.
That’s an idea that’s good to give more attention to :-)
It’s about choice. You can always choose in the moment…. “more attention on this or not.”
Anon — December 22, 2008
I know I can attention. It’s just my negative mindset exaggerates things. And I also have just that concern that my mind will exaggerate her weight. And I want to love her for her and not change her just because I have a thought.
I’ve just been deciding over this, thats all.
Mike Kinnaird — December 22, 2008
Hi Anon,
It’s important to always get back to “no thought.” Otherwise you are adrift so to speak, with no mental frame of reference.
Most people are constantly feeding and generating so many thoughts that it creates a false sense of identity.
To know the truth about something you don’t always have to think an answer. You can sense it will your higher intuition. That’s the “you” that knows all this other stuff is rubbish.
But you are still not fully disentangled. So keep to your center as much as possible–in other words keep going back to a clear mental space with no thoughts. Then you can see what comes up one at a time.
Does that make sense?
Mike Kinnaird — December 22, 2008
You always seem to know what you want :-) in this case, for her weight to be a non-issue. So pay no attention to it.
If she talks about fine, reassure her, it might be what she’s seeking from you.
The working out thing is still a good idea :-)
Anon — December 22, 2008
What you said seems to explain what I was talking about before in relation to loving her. I’ve been constantly thinking and trying to combat it with other thoughts and I get mixed up in the mess.
Thank you again for some great advice.
Mike Kinnaird — December 22, 2008
You know when you love someone. That knowing has nothing to do with thinking. You just sense it in your being.
You’re welcome Anon. Give yourself a break from thinking :-)
A confused man — December 30, 2008
Hi there Mike
Stumbled upon your site in a moment of desperation i guess. i’ve been suffering from unwanted thoughts for quite some time now. it all really kicked off after the one year anniversary of the death of my friend in a car crash. that was nearly two years ago. i’ve had good days and bad days. in the beginning it was hell. my mind focused on the thing i loved most in the world and became hell bent on ruining it for me. Like anon i began to doubt if i loved my girlfriend. i hated the thoughts, i knew they where false and that there was no substance to them but they wouldnt go away. i adore my girlfriend but my mind began to focus on all her flaws and use these as proof that i didnt in fact love her at all. Everytime a petty girl smiled at me my mind would target that as an excuse as to why i no longer loved her. It nearly drove me to ruin. While i have convinced myself that these thoughts are unsubstantiated they are still always niggling in the back of my mind waiting to resurface again. The bad thing is that my unwanted thoughts took on a far more sinister approach and pretty soon i was subconciously trying to convince myself that i was entirely capable of commiting every henious act under the sun. Murder, rape, paedophelia, incest, debauchery.. you name it my mind tried to convince me i could do it. With these thoughts came panic attacks and anxiety. As you can imagine this was complete hell for me. I am a devote catholic and have been raised by an amazing family. We are a tight nit group so i have never experienced a troubled home. Therefore i cant justify why i am having these thoughts. lately it has not been so bad. they come and go and through prayer and defiance i have learned to deal with them. The thing is i had a “bad” night tonight where having watched a murder mystery show my the violent thoughts crep back into my head. I’m just fed up. I can’t go on pretending the thoughts are not there because they are. I start to scrutinize every single emotion i am feeling as if to see if the thoughts are true. These thoughts have been crippling for me, especially the ones of a more evil and ugly nature. As i write this now i am “myself” so to speak. i am clear in my mind and beliefs. but the minute i stop or in a couple of days the thoughts will resurface and the pinful process wil begin all over again…
Sorry for the lengthy comment… this is the first real time i’ve completely opened up on all of this. i’v spoken to family and friends but not to this extent. anyway thanks for listening and i’d be interested to see what you think
:)
Mike Kinnaird — December 30, 2008
Hi there “Acm”
I’m so glad you did open up and write in. I love the fact that we can connect, that you have an outlet for your pain and that maybe other folks can read your story and perhaps not feel so alone.
These are taboo subjects… thoughts of murder and rape and so on so I’m happy that you can talk about them here, anonymously.
It’s very disturbing, to have these dark thoughts “in us” and to feel we are maybe evil, bad, even capable of such things.
I feel relieved that like some other commenters, you are at least partially aware of your thoughts and not totally identified with them.
“You,” the writer of the comment, the connection you felt when writing it are able to distinguish the thoughts as “not you,” as content of your mind–albeit unpleasant and disturbing content.
Seeing the thoughts and “not you” is a vital first step but you need other tools to stop them arising.
Seeing the thoughts as “not important” is the next step. When they arise, as they will continue to do for a little while, shrug them off and give them no more attention.
You don’t need to examine why they are there. It’s enough to know that they are “not you,” they are conditioned by your past and your attention and giving them a quality of importance.
You don’t need to DO anything on a continuous basis. You don’t need to look out for them or hold them down or have mental conversations about them or worry if they will show up.
When they DO show up, attach a quality of “no importance” and put your attention onto something else. That is the simple method for removing all unwanted thoughts.
These thoughts have momentum because you’ve given a lot of attention to them in the past. You told your brain that they were important so you can reverse it by doing the opposite.
If the thoughts “insist” you pay attention then you INSIST on paying attention to something else. This is tough at first but it gets easier as you go. The “something else” can be anything but best to keep it simple and choose an external focus. Rivet your attention onto an external object.
I’m sorry for the loss of your friend. I’ve found it helpful to think of my losses as gains. You actually gained your friend for all those years you were close and all those great times and close connections were actually a gift no? Yes it ended but you still gained the wonderful experience of that person for all those years. It’s a different way of looking at loss that maybe could help you? It can help to feel gratitude for the gift of that person in your life although it may have been only a few years.
Like I said in the article, meditation is the ultimate therapy because your success at using the “simple method” depends upon your ability to see the thoughts as “not you” and also the ability to choose the focus of your attention.
It’s not easy to see how enslaved we are by our own thoughts until we actually attempt to meditate.
Meditation is the most wonderful process and has benefits that are really hard to put into words but it enables you to see thoughts for what they are and gives you freedom of choice. Your sense of identity also shifts from content–the quality and types of thoughts you have to the awareness behind the content–the real and true you. The more you practice, the more your sense of identity shifts into the real you, the more peace you have, the more joy and love comes into your life, the more choice you have.
Also, I would say that the quality your thoughts is affected by every aspect of your life–the movies you watch–which trigger old thought patterns, to your diet, exercise and sleep habits.
All these and more powerfully affects the quality of your thoughts.
To have more happy thoughts, create a happy inner biochemistry by leveraging the powerful lifestyle habits.
Ok, I best not ramble on too much but I’m happy to discuss any aspect of stopping this awful experience you’ve been having for too many years now. Btw my friend in the article is pretty much cured. The gaps between bad times are months apart now and he only triggers the old pattern because he forgets just how bad it is to go there! He is effectively cured–and he was very very lost.
I hope this, and the article and comments give you a booster and a good start in turning all this around.
Please let me know if you need clarification about any aspect of the simple method for getting rid of unwanted thoughts, or if I can help you in any way.
God bless
Mike.
p.s. I find “passage mediation” the most effective because the feedback mechanism is so clear. Pick your favorite prayer or scripture and repeat it slowly, in a meditation setting, one word at a time, like pebbles plopping into water.
Mike Kinnaird — December 30, 2008
p.p.s. Do you have local support? A friend, relative or counselor who can help you if things get tough? It concerns me to think of you coping with all this on your own.
A confused man — December 31, 2008
Thanks for the response mike it has really helped to put my mind at ease. For the most part i have tried to handle it on my own. I’m only 22 but i’ve always felt like i’ve had an old soul in a young man’s body :P I suppose i was afraid of what people would think of me if i told anyone, i had become ashamed of myself for even allowing myself to be so affected by these thoughts. I saw myself as having become weak and hated myself for it. I have someone to talk to now if it really gets bad but i haven’t needed him in a while. I found discovering websites such as this really helped me. They made me become aware to the fact that i wasn’t alone in my suffering and this was such a comforting thing to know. I feel as if i am on the path to recovery now. I never doubted for a second that these thoughts were not me and that i could become what my mind was trying to tell me i could become. Even at the darkest moments i knew that the voice in my head wasn’t the “real” me, but it really wares you out and brings you down to constantly have to battle with your own mind day in and day out. After all our minds are our last strongholds of defense against a crazy world. If we lose control over this then where will we be? i always figured that my condition was just a more advanced form of OCD that i used to suffer from as a child. It was never at the needing medication stage but i would obsess about being clean and also used to have a fixation with counting to the number 3 (rainman eat your heart out!) This went away and for many years i was perfectly oblivious to any form of mental struggle. I can only reason then that the depression that was caused as a result of the loss of my friend triggered this long lost form of OCD in my mind and then i really went to town on it! i suppose the mistake i have made is that i have tried to confront these unwanted thoughts head on. I have tried to discover where they have originated from to see if i could then dispel them from my mind. Of course having now read your excellent article i realise that this may not have been the best course of action. having said that i strangely feel a lot mentally stronger for having done that. I now feel as if i am capable of beating these thoughts through the power of meditation even though it is something i have yet to try. it is however not a route that i would even wish on my worst enemies. It was a very dark and lonely path and a lot of soul searching was done. For a long time i didn’t even know who the “real” me was and that was the scariest time. when i didn’t know who the man looking back at me in the mirror was. but through the power of prayer and a sheer defiance and unwillingness to be beaten, i have made it this far and i feel as if i am now ready to take the next step and to cure myself. Thanks again for the lovely reply it was much needed and appreciated.
p.s That’s great news about your friend by the way, i am really delighted for him. Hopefully some day soon i can find myself in the same position. Thanks again Mike… :)
Mike Kinnaird — December 31, 2008
Hi again Acm,
Thanks for sharing more of your story. I really think it will help other people through their own dark times.
Ironically, and my friend couldn’t see this when he was constantly struggling with unwanted thoughts, this whole process forces you to become more conscious. And that means more aware, more established as the real you, more free.
It feels that you are cursed but when you’re out, you see that it was a blessing because it forced you to take control of thought and not be enslaved by it.
I dislike the label OCD because the attachment and identification with the label is unhelpful attention that prevents the letting go of it.
I also find that OCD sufferers tend to be very intelligent and sensitive people. They have a ferrari mind–powerful and difficult to control!! So their “burden” in life is greater but also their potential is greater.
Yes you do seem to have a wise head on very young shoulders :-)
I can see there is curiosity to find what caused all the trouble and I can see how you could feel relief to discover the cause but I really don’t think it’s required and the danger is that all the “soul searching” is feeding the “problem” with more attention.
The problem becomes like a entity that grows and grows and takes over more and more conscious attention. More and more conditioned thought forms attach to other thoughts and the monster grows and grows.
To take away the monsters power you have to remove your attention from it.
Incidentally I saw a documentary about a girl with schizophrenia a while back. I saw another label which implies a real disease, covering up what is in reality, a normal brain where the wiring has gone wrong–the programming. Trauma starting a process of “monster building.” Here the monster is a seperate identity that the real person talks to. The monster also “talks” to the person. But it’s one brain, one person. One being.
It’s really easy to create two identities in one brain. Make up an imaginary friend and start having converstions.
The fascinating thing is that the identity we think of as “who we are” is just as false as the made up identity of the schizophrenic. Our false self talks to us constantly and we allow it because we created it and believe in it–believe it is who we are.
Thanks again Acm. Keep in touch–I’d love to know how you get on over the coming weeks.
Mike.
A confused man — December 31, 2008
Well if by relating my story i can in some little way help someone else than it wil all have been worth it. It really is a scary path to walk on your own but i feel like i have turned a corner just by coming onto this site and opening up like i have done. I can’t thank you enough for your replies mike they have been of unmeasurable comfort and help! it’s always reassuring to know one is not crazy :D I gave the meditation a try last night and i have to say that while it was tough to focus my mind on one thing it did work. i pictured myself mountain climbing up a very tall and dangerous mountain. For me the mountain symbolised my struggle, my unwanted thoughts that i was trying to overcome inch by inch, step by step. Some days you are walking along and it isn’t very difficult and these symbolised the good days, but then you’d suddenly hit a sheer cliff face or fall down a crevase and these days naturally symbolised the bad days when every second feels like an immense struggle and you have to crawl inch by painful inch until you reach the ledge or reemerge into the open. It may seem silly but this analogy really works for me. Whenever i feel an unwanted thought coming on i will picture myself on the bad day and i will try and recreate the entire scene in my head. The tiredness in my legs, the freezing wind blowing against my face and trying to knock me from my perch, the feel of the crimpon as i wedge it into the ice to try and pull myself up. Of course by doing all of this it naturally takes my mind away from the unwanted thoughts and i return to a calm frame of mind. i will also give the passage meditation a try as it sounds like a great idea. I will keep you posted on how i’m doing and hopefully i can look forward to an unwanted thought free mind in 2009! Happy new year Mike! Hope you have a great time tonight wherever you may be :)
Mike Kinnaird — January 2, 2009
Hi Acm,
That’s wonderful that you’re finding relief with your visualization. My only slight concern is that the analogy contains the problem albeit in a subtle and abstract form.
You are still seeing yourself with the problem if you see what I mean.
Any distraction that stops attention on the unwanted thought is going to mean you make rapid progress. But, I’m not sure the analogy would be my first choice.
The end state is “oblivious” as you put it. No thoughts or feelings to do with the unwanted thoughts. No awareness that there is, or was ever a problem.
That means removing all conscious attention.
The focus of your “re-direct” will quickly set up a new link between the arising old thought pattern and the new choice–especially when repeated over and over as you will be doing.
Pretty soon the link will operate automatically.
Having said all that, I definitely wouldn’t want to dampen your enthusiasm in any way. The main thing–the BIG stuff, is to keep you mind off the unwanted thoughts–removing ALL attention from them. That’s the main thing.
And of course, you’ve got to trust your own intuition on it and do what you think is best for you.
This is a small matter compared to removing attention from the unwanted thoughts.
Thanks for all the kind words :-). Keep up the good work!
Mike.
A confused man — January 2, 2009
Thanks Mike
I see what you mean about the analogy i created. Anything that will lead me to keep reminding myself that i have unwanted thoughts can not be good in the long term. I suppose i’ll tweak my visual meditation to just picturing a place of calm and tranquility such as a lakeside or mountain top vista. The problem won’t be anywhere in the visualisation and the process of recreating the entire scene in my head will lead me to the state of calm that i desire. I’ll keep popping in and out to see how things are going and will keep you informed of my progress. You are an extraordinary man Mike Kinnaird. To dedicate so much of your time and effort and to give so much yet recieve nothing in return just so you can help complete and utter strangers through their dark times is work on par with any saint i’ve ever read about. And I genuinely mean that. What you do here cannot be praised highly enough. You saved me from the black holes in my mind and while i am far from 100% cured i can now look to the future with hope and optimism as opposed to despair and anxiety. I take my hat off to you. Keep up the good work and if ever our paths should cross i’ll gladly buy you a drink :)
A no longer confused man…
Mike Kinnaird — January 3, 2009
Hi Acm (a clear man :-)
Wow — Thank you for your amazing comment! I’m speechless (for once :-)
Yeah, I think the new plan is much better. I’m so looking forward to seeing how you get on!
i will say this
I have just really started getting alot of unwanted thoughts and emotions that i try and try to get out of my head but they will not. Like you say the more attention i give them the worse they get
The one thing that really keeps me in touch is knowing that “I” am not having these thoughts
“I” would never do or say any of the thoughts
They are just thought loops i can not get out of.
For me it is a fear of the unknown, dieing, and just quetioning reality that i cannot get rid of
I have meditated many times and i will keep at it
This is a test in life and i am going to get an A
Hi Mike,
I like this article. I’m into affirmations and have found that when I get a little compulsive about things, as we all do from time to time, if I keep doing afirmations like ‘I am free from all obsessions and compulsions’ or ‘I am free of obsessive behaviour’ really works!
Warm wishes,
Gina
i watched the film 24 days later, i was and still am a bit scared about the fact that it could happen my mates said it could and it made me worse, i could’nt sleep endless night and the shadow of a threat was growing in my mind, i did’nt feal safe anywhere i went even if it was a fair with hundreds of people, i listened more, watched more and asked my parents for reashorence, they kept and still keep telling me its not real, but it only helps a bit, i ve got to sort it out, in my heart i know that it cant happen but in my mind its telling me it is and its looking at all aspects of possibility, im scared, and im still really young.
Hi Danny,
It’s a really really bad idea to watch horror when you’re young. Your mind will experience a movie like that as if it were almost real. The younger the mind the more it experiences it as real. But anyway, the damage is done — what to do?
I can tell you that this will won’t go on long but I would would suggest keeping your mind of it as much as possible. When you remember the film, shrug it off, tell yourself it’s just the movies then substitute the happiest thought you can — maybe remember a time you felt really really safe.
Be patient, it will go away… keep your mind off it. Please please stop watching horror movies.
I don’t even watch horror or even much news which to me is even more horrific than the movies and presents a completely distorted view of reality.
In truth, most people are kind, caring people and the few that aren’t would be if they knew how.
Email me if you want to talk it through (use the contact us form in the menu bar)
Take care and good luck.
Mike.
Hi Tom,
“I have meditated many times and i will keep at it.”
I found meditation to be an amazing process. I remember a story, might of been in “The Power of Now”, not sure, where this girl was driven crazy by all this anxiety and mental noise.
Then one day she sat by the river and just spontaneously started really really noticing the present moment… the sound of the river, a flower, birds and so on.
It was almost as if the internal noise had got so unbearable it almost forced her into the present moment. And all that internal noise went away in an instant. Point is we can just choose a different focus. We can do that.
Don’t know why I’m telling you this really, I just remembered it when I read your comment.
Hope you get that A :-) Meditation sure will inject a whole load of sanity into your life.
Mike.
thanks mike i feal better, im acctualy 14. so dose that mean that it will definetly go away and that my mind is more imaginative becaus im that young?
It will go away for sure be patient and see the fear for what it is… your mind thinks there is really something to fear but YOU know it was only a movie RIGHT?
Listen Danny, I know 10 year old kids who are scared of everything because they watch all this horror that has 18 on it. Believe me that isn’t cool. It’s 18 for a reason and to be honest I hate to think of what’s going on in the heads of the people who make all this trash.
Do yourself a big big favor and be very careful what you feed into your mind.
Yes, at 14 you are less able to discriminate between real and movie but I tell you, even adults will be affected in some way by what they watch.
Btw, your mates are trying to wind you up. If they see you’re scared they’ll probably think that’s hilarious. Oh the joys of being 14 eh?
Take care
Mike
I think meditation is the BEST thing a person can do–so helpful. Thank you for mentioning that in here.
Hi. My name’s Tom too so I’ve put my age next to my name to avoid confusion :)
I read about Danny’s problem and I can relate completely. Only my problem is I’ve read some really, *really* graphic content about things that have actually happened. It’s driving me crazy. Not literally I hope lol.
I won’t say what the stuff was about specifically because it doesn’t really need mentioning. It’s nothing embarassing or anything, just extremely disturbing. Evil, actually.
A thought that keeps coming into my head is the possibility that I myself could go on to do those things. I know I can’t possibly immitate any of it and I wouldn’t try to anyway! But logic doesn’t seem to be changing my mindset.
And of course the fact that the material was very real doesn’t do me any favours. It just makes the image stronger. I know it will all probably go at some point but I’d like to get to that point as fast as possible.
I know 16 isn’t really a mature age anyway. But this stuff was for public viewing! Well I don’t know who’s brainstorm that was but I’m seriously considering trying to get it removed.
Thanks and best wishes
Tom (the other one)
Hi Tom16
Are you saying that anyone can see this stuff — even young children? I hope you do try to get it removed.
It’s quite sad to me that children’s innocence is taken away by all this sick stuff. I do believe it has wide ranging damaging effects on individuals and societies.
I understand how your mind has now new possibilities that it’s exploring now you’ve seen this stuff and that is very very sad indeed.
Although you might well be conscious enough to see these thoughts for what they are, what about others? There will be some who do end up acting this stuff out or becoming so fascinated that that get deeply into it.
It’s all very disturbing.
There’s great beauty in a child’s innocence.
Exposure to disturbing and ‘evil’ elements is NOT a requirement for the development of a child.
Tom, I have a mental trick for thoughts and feelings I don’t want inside me. I imagine wrapping them in sheets of white, thin fine silk–and just keep wrapping until I can’t feel them or be aware of them anymore. It really works.
Then you can imagine that cocoon of silk with the bad stuff inside exploding in a billion tiny pieces that get scattered far into the universe.
Try it — it works :-)
Oh and one last thought. A clever guy once said “The worst things in my life never happened.” Think it might be Mark Twain. Definately a good idea to not imagine bad stuff and have these mental movies going on in your head.
Take care Tom16 and thanks for writing.
Mike.
hi mike, i m from india. i m also facing the same prob. i read all wat u said, but thing which i read will not last long much in my mind, after few days i will forget them and again face the same problem.
can u explain ur solution part in a better way.
Hi “myself”
I don’t know your specific problem so I’ll just talk about the case I mentioned in the article.
If the information lasts a few days I think that’s great! I suggest re-reading to remind yourself every few days til you “own it”
In my friends case, there are 2 components to his problem.
1. Belief that the unwanted thoughts serve him and warn of real danger.
2. Inability to choose the focus of attention.
1. If your fear is irrational, it means you need to use reason to fully understand how and why it’s irrational which will open the door to you being able to let go of it. For this you need to talk to others… friends, close family, trusted advisors etc until you understand that your fear is irrational. This is the easiest bit :-)
2. You need to choose the focus of your attention. To remove unwanted thoughts you need to consistently redirect your attention away from the thoughts you don’t want. You cannot fight them or stop them arising. It’s simply a matter of letting them come and go but not empowering them with your attention.
The single most powerful technique to teach you to do this is meditation. Do a little research and find a simple method that appeals to you. The method is not the important thing. Practice for 30 minutes every day and you’ll rapidly begin to untangle you sense of ‘I’ from thought, and you’ll be able to gain power over your attention. Attention is everything.
I can’t say it much better than that :-) If you give me some more details of your problem, I may be able to add some other ideas.
Thanks for your question and good luck! Let me know if I can help you further,
Mike.
Hi Mike,
Thanks a lot.
I like ur 2nd point.
“To remove unwanted thoughts you need to consistently redirect your attention away from the thoughts you don’t want. You cannot fight them or stop them arising. It’s simply a matter of letting them come and go but not empowering them with your attention.”
I immmediately able to do dat,
Bcoz of this, these thoughts does not affect me that much now.
but i always get scared,may be some other new -ve thoughts come to my mind, basically my heart become weaker by all these -ve thougths. coz mind continously try to think some other new -ve thought which can affect me and i also think very deeply abt any matter,which is also affecting me.
when these thoughts try to affect me,one more thing i do .I start counting table of 19,since i found it diffcult.
I m also reading books Like “Art of living”
But now i m quite normal by those of u r line which i mentioned above.
and as far as meditation is concern ,i used to concentrate on breathing in the morning for 25-30 min.
I found this Article, Great!!!!!!!!
Its Really Nice,can i have u r Email Id?.
Warm Wishes,
Myself
Hi “Myself”
So glad you were able to get immediate relief. It’s a powerful process for sure.
Regarding the fear of further negative thoughts…
This is just another thought-feeling in disguise. It’s not “you” either, just as the other unwanted thoughts aren’t you.
So the same technique applies. Don’t empower it with your attention but don’t fight it either.
Fighting it is just more attention.
I hope you keep up the meditation. It’s a wonderful thing :-)
Yes, I’ll write to you so you’ll have my email ID, it’s not a secret but we can’t put it on the web because of the spam bots! Grrr :-)
Mike.
P.S. I LOVE your 19 times table idea!! Can I use it for my eBook?! :-)
I usually advise just redirecting attention to something in the present moment say… birds chirping.
But powerful thought-feelings do need a powerful solution. Some find a mantra is great… or 19 times table!
Good stuff,
Mike.
Hi Mike:
Just stumbled upon your web site recently. Great site! I just had a quick question re your article on getting rid of unwanted thoughts. I too have thoughts like those, and have tried all sorts of things eg, herbs, etc, all to no avail UNTIL I recently started meditating. It really seems to be helping. What I was wondering is 1) how long and how often and 2) what type? I’m told putting a plug in your right nostril (Khalsa Yoga meditation) works better for OCD as the left nostril feeds the right side of the brain, where emotions and anxiety, etc are rooted.
Any thoughts?
Thx
Hi Drew!
1) 30 minutes a day works wonders. If you’re super keen, do 2 sessions a day for example, one in the morning, one in the evening — dawn and dusk are optimal times.
2) The method is not the important thing — which is that you have a focus and that you are aware of what that focus is. Having said that, I seem to get the best results with passage meditation. This is slowly saying an inspirational spiritual passage mentally.
This is great for keeping track of “where you are” because as you know, it’s all to easy to get lost in thought.
3) I wouldn’t plug any nostrils. The meditation is the thing with the greatest power. Alternate nostril breathing is a great thing to do though to create balance. You could do some pranayama for five minutes as a prelim to the meditation.
If you have time, asana, pranayama, meditation is a great sequence!
Let me know how you get on or if you need any more help.
Mike.
Hi Mike:
Thanks for getting back to me. I’ll try and do two sessions as you suggest, plus read your Habit Guide e-book which I just purchased. I’ll also try passage meditation and see if that helps as well.
Thanks again, and I’ll let you know what I think of your book!
Drew
Very good post. So much of our lives are governed by the way we think. Brian Tracy says that “we are what we think about most of the time”. This is based on the law of correspondance, which means our outer world is a reflection of our inner world. Once again.. great post!!
Hi Mike,
I have lived with a in-law family member for 5 years now and my thoughts of this person are driving me insane. I try extremely hard to keep my peace, not saying anything, and trying to make my thoughts leave so I dont say anything horrible and it is eating me alive. What do you suggest I do when those thoughts hound me? If your answer is meditation, what do I try to focus on?
Hi Mimi,
I suggest you don’t empower them with more attention. Simply observe what’s happening and be curious about it. This will instantly seperate “you” from the thoughts and emotions and help you to let them go.
It’s tough, and there’s no easy solution, but there is a simple solution and that is meditation. The ONLY solution to any ego related problem is to go higher–become more conscious.
A very valuable thing to do in these kinds of situations is to spend some time thinking compassionate thoughts about the person who you perceive to be hurting you.
That may sound crazy but until you change the inner situation, the outer won’t change. I’ve used this technique myself and it does transform if you do it well. Perhaps start by imagining your in-law as an innocent baby, totally dependant on the world for support and then imagine the forces that could have shaped them into what they are today.
If you can put yourself in a compassionate attitude towards the person that is hurting you, I believe this will totally transform your relationship. Of course, not easy, but if you can do it, you will grow tremendously from the experience. This is about your personal power and freedom.
The Buddha said “He was angry with me, he attacked me, he defeated me, he robbed me–those who do not dwell on such thoughts will surely become free from hatred.”
Apart from meditating on compassion for the person, I would say give no attention to the situation until a thought or feeling arises. Then simply observe it with curiosity, substitute your compassionate feelings and let it go.
I think what you’re already doing is right–biting your tongue–as tough as it is to do. Any “input” or influence should be done in a calm state of mind. In Kabbalah, this resisting of reactionary forces is the key to generating spiritual light.
In my experience, resisting a reactionary response becomes easier the more you do it.
I would recommend sit down practice of meditation to everybody. Mindfulness and the techniques I’ve talked about here will be difficult to apply without the precious understanding that meditation gives.
Thanks for your question… it’s helped me to clarify something in my own mind. My heart goes out to you and I wish you luck with this–I’ve been through exactly the same thing myself and I know how painful it can be.
Keep in touch and let me know how you get on,
Mike.
I found some understanding at last i thought I was the only weird one but it seems to be happening to others.I go to church pray when i get this bad thought and fear that seems to come out of no where.I will not get consumed by them I will arise from all this and be a motivational speaker some day to help others that feel traped.I will start mediation and see how it goes i have the power to overcome these thoughts.
Hey Mike,
Thank you for your response.The part I liked the most and which I think will be most helpful to me is to think compassionate thoughts and to remember how life has shaped them. I wish I could tell you how this person really is but that would be dis-honorable. Thank you for your advice. It’s hard for me to remember that I’m only responsible for my actions and I cant make them or be responsible for what ever they choose or choose not to do. Anyway, Thank you for listening to me.Do you have any advice on feeling suspicious and not trusting someone? That hinders my compassionate feelings a little and my way of interacting with them. How do you try to like someone or (act like)you like someone if you dont trust them?
Sincerely, Mimi
Hi Mimi,
You’re not going to change your feelings for this person instantly but if you keep dwelling on compassion for the person, it will put you in a place where the quality of your words and actions towards them are different.
Someone can be untrustworthy without making it into a personal problem–it’s just information. If they can’t be trusted or you suspect so, that’s the way it is. You don’t need to pretend they can be trusted or anything.
I know many people who are closed off and somewhat devious. We all try to “get our own way” and devious people think that their way is a good way. Their world view is “it’s me against the world, I have to protect myself from the world and people that will try to hurt me.” That kind of behavior is learned from life experience.
I would give up your mental plans of action and focus on meditation and compassion. As the inner you shifts, then so will the quality of your interaction with the world. You cannot try to love your neighbor intellectually. That kind of trying is ego based. You have to let go of your own ego then love for your neighbor becomes a natural expression of who you are.
If someone is pushing your buttons–well they’re your buttons to get rid of. Ultimately, to be who we truly are, we have to give up our “idea of ourselves.”
Trying to like a person or pretending to like them may be the most appropriate thing to do. Perhaps you understand the consequences of a different course of action.
By the way, I’m not a believer in the idea that we have to put up with all kinds of behavior. But from what you’ve said, it seems that for now, this is a situation you can’t get out of.
When negative feelings come up in you, substitute compassionate ones–see what happens :-) Good luck, I know it’s tough.
Mike.
Hi ana,
It’s funny… when I was younger I thought everyone was doing great except me! As I got older, folks started opening up to me and telling me their deepest secrets I realized we’re all a bit “weird” in our own way. I love your positive attitude. I hope you get to do that motivational speaking one day soon.
Good luck!
Mike.
hi i have scary thoughts that i might get exercisom
write me back i beg u i cant keep my mind off it and i cant think of other things so plz help me i do need help not mentely physicly
thnx
Hi Chloe,
I’ve emailed you privately about your problem.
Mike.
i just wanted to say u r the best
Thank you Chloe! :-) Good luck. Write any time.
hello,
I’m asking on behalf of my boyfriend, he has always issues where he puts himself down and has loss issues.
Since we started dating he’s said I’m his light and I always make him feel better about himself, But lately self esteem issues have gotten worse. He worries all the time about every one around me, and has started to build up hatred for going out in public. I’m really starting to worry about him.
We have a long distance relationship and I know once we bridge the gap he will either get better or worse.
I need all the help I can get.
Please help,
Sara
Hi Sara,
As strange as it may seem, self esteem and loss issues are not seperate from what your boyfriend eats, whether he exercises and his sleep habits — as well as a lot of other lifestyle issues. When life throws in a curve ball, we need to be ready. We cope the best when we’re in tip top shape mentally and physically.
The resolution of his problem is lifestyle and habits — along with some specifics to re-direct unhelpful repetitive thought patterns.
As I said in the article, meditation is the ultimate freedom because it untangles the sense of I from thought itself. Once there is this precious distance, one can look at thoughts with a discerning view and say yes or no. It’s about attention, and being the master of our attention.
You may indeed be his light, but also you may be in for a tough ride before, and if, this is resolved. It’s going to take a willingness on your boyfriends part to do what it takes and that depends on different and unique factors such as if he has HAD ENOUGH of the suffering.
Low self esteem is definitely related to repetitive negative thoughts and it could take while.
Very best wishes,
Mike
I was diagnosed with ocd about 6 years ago, but it is at its worst now.
I keep on seeing these scarey images in my mind and i can’t make them go away. My mind forces me to see these horrible images and there is nothing i can do to stop them. They drive me crazy and make me really depressed. Please offer me some help. I would really appreciate it.
Hi Tania,
I did reply to your message via our contact form but I guess it’s gone into your spam box. Hotmail does that. GRRRRRR :-)
Anyway this was my reply to you;
———-
Make sure I’m listed in your address book and let’s do this by email ok.
Dear Matt,
My ocd is more pure “o”, just obsessive thoughts. I guess i could say that the images i see in my mind are intrusive thoughts. Anything from a scary movie or something i saw in a magazine or iwitnessed in life, just tends to replay in my mind over and over. I’ve tired cognitive therapy and different medications, manily paxil and seroquel, but nothing seems to work. I know you said not to pay attention to the thoughts, but how do i do that if they appear so often in my mind. What can i do to make them go away? I just want to live a normal life. Is there any hope for me?
Thank you for ur time,
Tania
Hi Tania,
You can’t make them go away, they go away on their own when you stop paying attention and attaching importance and meaning to them.
That’s why meditation is key because you learn “here is me” and “there is the thought/image.”
Without this spaciousness, your attention can easily be sucked into powerful thoughts such as these. Without the distance you won’t be able to let go so easily.
My friend in the article wouldn’t meditate btw. He just wouldn’t do it and he made amazing progress with just the “not paying attention” technique. It took a long time (approx 2 years) though and was a two step forward and one step back type of progress.
In his case, the thoughts were backed by powerful beliefs that the thoughts actually protected him from imagined danger. The danger wasn’t real — except in his mind. It took literally years of reasoning for him to let go of the belief and so then he was able gradually to let go of the thoughts.
He would never have let go of the thoughts while he still believed they served him i.e. warned him of actual danger.
I don’t think there is anything structurally wrong with your brain or anything. I find that sensitive people are prone to OCD and they are intellegent.
These problems often contain individual subtleties that I can’t comment on in your case because I don’t know they are.
But what you describe isn’t so far away from the experience of ordinary people when they watch a horror movie say. I know I can be shaken for a little while afterwards — but it’s a matter of degree. You clearly are more sensitive to disturbing ideas and images than Joe Average.
That being the case, it makes sense to try and limit your exposure to potentially disturbing stuff. For example, I watch very little news because I find it negative and it bothers me so I rarely watch it. It serves no valuable purpose so I don’t do it.
Also worth noting is that a not insignificant part of the population is sensitive to caffeine. Stimulants can make sensitive people hyper-sensitive so that’s something to be aware of.
Generally increasing your relaxation will pay dividends with this problem. Get into a solid routine at bedtime where you slowly wind down and finish with relaxation exercises — perhaps a CD of guided relaxation before sleep.
Little things like cutting sown on caffeine and habitual relaxation make a BIG difference.
Reprogram your reaction to these “fear flashes” by noticing them calmly, recognizing they are made by part of your brain that thinks it serves you, that they in themselves cause no danger to you at all, and calmly let them go by paying attention to something else.
If the image cause a knee-jerk tension in you then consciously relax the tense body parts. Your new habit of bed-time relaxtion will teach you how to do this.
If you have time and the inclination, get into Yoga. The breathing, relaxation, meditation and exercises will gradually transform you into such a calm person you won’t recognize yourself :-)
In answer to your question “how do I let go of these unwanted thoughts when they keep repeating over and over.” The answer is you keep ignoring them over and over by the process I mentioned above. The part of your brain that produces these “fear flashes” cannot tell the difference between a real event and something you saw on TV or a magazine. That’s why sensitive people like you and me need to remember that and limit our exposure.
By consciously noticing and calmly ignoring, you repeatedly tell that part of your brain that there is nothing to fear and you reprogram the “fear flash” into a relaxation response. It takes calm persistance to do what it takes.
You can substitute a positive thought too if it helps and this too will re-channel the energy behind the fear. If you saw a frightened child you would speak calmly, say positive things and reassure there is no danger. These instinctive reactions to someone else’s fear show the natural solutions so you can give yourself the same treatment. Speak calmly, positively and reassuringly to the fearful part.
Keep reassuring the part that there’s nothing fear, it’s all ok, it can forget to tell you about that thing again.
Do that if it helps. It’s optional.
OK quick recap of the process. You get a sudden fear flash. You become tense. Notice it and reassure yourself “oh that’s only the movie, nothing to fear.” Consciously relax. Pay attention to something else.
Repeat this process over and over til the fear goes.
Don’t look out for fear flashes coming. Don’t be on your guard at all. Stay relaxed and focused as much as possible on other things.
I do think there is hope for you. I see this as an extreme example of what everyone experiences when they see disturbing images.
I hope this is clear. It’s quite a tricky subject to put into words. Let me know what you think of all this. As I said, I can only talk in general terms because I don’t know all the details of your case.
Mike.
Hi Mike this is Tania,
I really appreciate the time and effort you spent writing me back. I think you are such a nice person to consider helping people like me. It really gives me hope and encouragement. I was wondering if u have a degrgee in mental health or anything like that since you know so much. I will try to do what u said about not [giving] the thoughts/images any attention and redirect my focus to something else. I think of it as such a blessing from God for letting me get help from a person like you. Thank you so much.
Hi Tania,
Feedback like yours makes it all worthwhile for me. Not a degree no — 20 years meditation and of course, I’m also human so I have experienced the same things.
A lot of those years I guess I was meditating many hours a day because I was in bed with extreme low energy states and there was nothing else to do :-)
Meditation is such an amazing process. I recommend it highly to everyone. It’s about finding the real you — what you naturally are and dis-identifying with the “made-up” you — ideas you have about yourself “I am this, I am that, I think this, I think that.”
Compassion is the result of meditation because compassionate is what we naturally are.
Another thought I had about your problem is that as much as possible, try to be in a supportive and loving environment. If you experience “real” fear in everyday life — an angry boss or partner for example, then your “general fear volume” is turned up. You’d be on your guard more which is not good for sensitive people.
So that’s just something to be aware of more long-term. Things like environment can’t be changed overnight but by keeping in mind that you want and need a loving environment, you’ll begin to move towards that.
Bottom line: stay away from people who don’t support you.
I’m really happy to help Tania. It’s truly my pleasure. If you try those suggestions and see how you get on, and report back, there may be little ideas that come out of taking this step that are individual to you, so let me know if you need more help getting totally clear on this.
I wish you the best of luck!
Mike.
Dear Matt,
I’ve tried to ignore the the thoughts/images that come in my mind and try to focus on something else, but my mind is continuously telling me to focus on the things i don’t want. Why won’t my mind listen to me? Why won’t it let me focus on the something that i like instead of something that scares me. I seriously think that my mind is evil and working
me. How can i train my mind to not focus on these things and focus on
something else.
Love Tania
p.s. i hope u don’t mind me writing to you so much. i just really think that
the first time in my life i can trust someone who understands what i’m going through. i think u are an angel. your my last hope
Hi Tania,
I don’t mind you writing at all. Write as much as you like to.
There is no evil there in your mind. These thoughts have a lot of power thats all. They repeat their conditioning, that’s what they do. Your attention empowers that process.
My mind will sometimes randomly throw in what you would describe as an evil thought. It’s only by meditation, that I see it’s random rubbish.
For example on rare occasions, a racist thought may surface. It’s just a culturally conditioned thought — not me. I’m not racist at all, just the thought. I recognize it as attitudes and emotions in others that got embedded in me.
The thought was put there by my culture. For example if you hang out with people who have a certain attitude, your mind will begin to take on the same attitude very quickly.
Have you ever spent time with a new friend and within only a few hours, you notice yourself taking on their mannerisms? That’s how the mind works.
Now imagine how every human contact has affected you since birth. Your character is made up of thought habits you had about your enivronment — the sum total of what you focused on and took “on-board” from all your connections with life.
To be truly free you have to control this process. You have to be able to choose — to say “yes” or “no” to conditioning.
There is no other way than to “go higher” through meditation and if that feels scary to you then start with relaxation tapes and CD which will get you out of any states of anxiety you are in.
Anxiety magnifies the process of taking on new conditioning massively. This is totally natural. A dangerous situation such as say a lion attacking you needs you total attention and a hyper alert state.
This is why, by the way, that childhood trauma can result in OCD later on. It starts a chain that eventually becomes hard to stop.
This is early days for you Tania. I think it’s wonderful you’ve made a start but changing your mind takes a while.
Thoughts don’t go away overnight because they’re part of your “program” — conditioning. You change that over time by contolling your attention or specifically, withdrawing attention from thoughts you don’t want.
You have to learn to become the driver of your own mental car so-to-speak.
So, relaxation will remove the anxiety component to this problem adnd that is so so important. I urge you to do relaxation exercises. Put your attention inside your body and feel for tension throughout your whole body, breath deeply and so on. Learn how to do that.
20 odd years ago I was a “walking head.” All my attention was in my head and it took me many years to “get out of my head.”
You also need to learn that process of putting attention into your body, feeling and releasing tension consiously.
These “evil” thoughts. Have a sense of humor about them of you can. Laugh at them! Don’t take them seriously. They are there because of cultural and personal conditioning and that is all.
They are not you. Because you are the one who can notice them.
PERSISTANCE with this is the key. You cannot stop a thought arising because to do so is giving it more attention, and so turning up it’s volume.
Remember the stall holder example in the article? It’s hard to hold your attention onto something else but practice practice practice and these thoughts “volume” will start to be turned down.
And over the next weeks and months, if you do what it takes, the volume will diminish until they go away altogether.
Attention turns the volume up and focusing AWAY turns the volume down. That’s why I said the solution is SIMPLE because it’s only a matter of attention. Are you paying attention to these thoughts or not. That’s the only criteria that matters.
Thoughts have a sense of importance attached. You can laugh at that. They are not important and you are free to let them go.
Keep it simple — don’t pay them the slightest attention. How do you ignore someone in real life? It’s the same. You know how to do it.
Relax and ignore. Be persistance is the process. Be clear about the process.
You only need to choose your attention when the evil thoughts come. Turn away from them. The stronger the thought/image the more intensely you try to focus onto something else.
Mike (not matt :-)
hi,
my names tyler,im 18, and in college, okay about two weeks ago i was laying in bed, and i suddenly got an unwanted bad thought, it troubled me up to this day, and i cant ever seem to get rid of it, im not that type of person when the thought came into process, but…it did freak me out quite a bit and now im constantly questioning myself over and over and at times it goes away and other times it comes back..i know itll go away eventually but just the fact that its here…it is just so ANNOYING!!..
but i will appreciate help and some tips on meditation or whatever way there is to get out of it..and another thing, is this just a phase?
Hi Tyler,
Thanks for your question. The good news is that by being proactive now, you stop it becoming a potential problem down-the-line. First thing is to stop questioning about it but just notice it when it comes with curiosity. Really resist the temptation to question or give it any importance at all.
Strong, persistent and problematic thoughts such as those in OCD are probably best paid no attention at all in the intital stages because they can trigger powerful emotions very quickly but with you, I think the thought is mild enough to give it the curiosity treatment.
Just look at it curiously when it comes and then let it go and pay attention to something else.
Don’t engage it or follow a line of thought related to it or anything like that.
If you want to start meditation which is a wonderful thing to do, then perhaps try zen breath counting meditation. It’s a good one and perhaps the simplest one. The method is not the essential thing but that there is a conscious focus and preferrably a feedback system to show you where you got lost (e.g. counting)
Let me know how you get on,
Best wishes and good luck
Mike.
hey mike!
thanks a who lot man! i took up the idea of retracing my steps of when it first occured and went over it with a family member, they went along with me helping, and this may seem strange, but meditating on the fact and getting deep into it or retracing my steps to that night truely sparked the fire and the fact also becuase i remember going through some other emotional things that night. Other than that theres that good saying “keep asking and it will be given to you” or “keep searching and you will find it” its awesome mike and once again thanks! ill keep in touch with you if anything else comes up
sincerely,
Tyler
P.s. keep up the good work Mike!!!
Hi Tyler!
Great you found relief. It sure can be a comfort to trace the cause although it’s not always possible if the problems is like 20 years old or something.
My friend always wanted to know “Why is this happening?” In his case too, although a very old problem, we did trace the cause and like you, he got some relief from that which helped let go of the problem.
Knowing the cause isn’t essential in my view though, only in-as-much as it helps you to let go of it.
Yes… keep in touch!
God bless,
Mike.
Hi Mike,
I am currently in a horrid state of anxiety, obsessive thought and depression.
I’ll try and tell my story as simply as possible.
Around 3 months ago I started ago going out with my best friend (whom for privacy reasons we will name X). Before then, she was my best friend for over 2 years. She knows absolutely everything about me, my deepest secrets; which if were to be exposed on a widespread level, would cause me much pain and embarrassment. I know everything about her as well. This really set the foundation for a good relationship, which we both agreed would be long term (i.e. eventual marriage). I have always been one to analyze my thoughts in the past, but around 3 weeks ago a thought of doubt came into my mind concerning her. She did nothing to trigger this off. We have a very stable, honest, open relationship. I held onto that negative thought and latched onto it. I was scared and concerned that it was the truth. I then continued to combat that thought with good thoughts of X. These would only assist in giving it further ammunition. And it did.
Eventually I was thinking thoughts such as feelings for my other best friends (who are friends with X as well), I began to mock her (attack her qualities) in my head from time to time, then that advanced to having thoughts of being violent (I am a very peaceful and caring person), I would also silently in my head mock my family and have violent thoughts there as well, evil thoughts basically. These thoughts were basically against my very core, but my analytical nature forced me to consider them. Later that week I went to my counsellor, and I had really dug a hole from where I started. She advised me on mindfulness and living in the moment. She didn’t go into too much detail. I felt fairly good after this and continued my day. But then the thoughts entered again over the weekend. I couldn’t stand the thoughts which were entering my brain and attacking her and ultimately my core being. I ended up breaking it up with her (keep in mind that I told her every single thought that went through my head, I was completely honest). We were both still in love with eachother, but I was so lost in my thoughts that it was bringing us both down.
Whilst we agreed to be best friends, we couldn’t resist our closeness and intimacy. We continued to be intimate. We began to get confused why we broke up in the first place. The negative thoughts to some extent were a bit weaker because I had been practising mindfulness and living in the moment. I thought I would be strong enough to be with her again. I put it down to that I hadn’t really a clue that weekend previously on how to manage the obsessive thoughts.
We got back together around a week ago. It was good for the first couple of days, I still had the negative thoughts but not to such a great extent. They came from time to time and then suddenly one day they really ripped at my core. I began questioning what these thoughts meant. I thought maybe they had some underlying reason. A big question which has been on my mind - how can you differentiate negative feelings, with the truth? For weeks I had told myself - ‘I know what’s in my heart. I love X. Don’t analyze as it only creates doubt’. Eventually my mind began to attack my heart, and questioned whether I really loved her at all as more than a friend. She has cute mannerisms you see, and before these all came in I loved them, I never gave them a second thought. But the way my mind was building up it started to attack those. I couldn’t stop the thoughts coming in. From time to time my mind was slipping and I felt I needed to combat these by thinking positive thoughts about her. I began to struggle when I thought about her in a good way, because the thoughts would come and attack that. I also started to question - what is the difference between best friends and bf/gf? Is it just physical love? I feel so strongly for my best friends, that I ended up so confused.
I broke up with her again two days ago. It was fairly mutual. She could see that I wasn’t strong enough to go on and that it was hurting me and also her. We have exams around this period and she was struggling to cope with my problems. It was becoming a bit much for her to constantly be helping me. Exams are a very stressful time so this is entirely understandable, and relying on one person too much has it’s drawbacks.
So we agreed to be best friends again. I thought maybe this would cease thoughts a little so I could get back on track. Even though, my feelings of bf/gf love weren’t as strong my mind is still attacking her core and her mannerisms. It’s almost been telling me that I should severe all ties. Which is not what I want. I feel sick thinking about my life without her. My mind has been linking back to other events in my past, where people would frustrate me. I ended eventually severing ties with them, but there were other facotrs there (both of those people I thought about from my past treated me poorly). Because I gave in to some extent, through breaking up, I’m in a state of mind where I’m capable to continue giving in. I need to combat this.
I don’t want this to continue anymore. I’ve been seeing my counsellor twice a week for the last couple of weeks. I’m just afraid, that these feelings are the truth and are linked with my past. I’v tried to some extent to relax, but with exams pressing, my brain is having difficulty distracting itself. I know what’s truly in my heart. But my mind is running rampage at the moment.
Please help me get rid of these thoughts. I can’t see an end to this at the moment, and I feel sick that I’v given in to these thoughts, which originally had no meaning. But now they continue to play on my mind.
Thank you so much. It would mean the absolute world to me to hear your advice.
God bless.
I also feel very hopeless right now..
I can’t seem to get out of this spiral. I’m so exhausted and worn out.
GAH
Dear Anon,
Firstly I’m quite surprised at the lucidity and insightful nature of your description of events.
The intensity of unwanted thought problems is related to your general level of consciousness and it really seems to me that you are a highly conscious person i.e. not fully identified with thoughts.
Your problem is actually a wonderful description of how a little, fairly innocent thought can become insidious if given enough attention.
It seems to me that an additional layer of pain is heaped on by the fact that you really love this girl. Losing soneone you love is hard at the best of times but when it’s your own self destructive thoughts that cause it, it’s no suprise you’re confused and depressed.
I don’t know all the subtleties of your situation so please bear that in mind;
I think a massive factor in this could be the impending exams. Stress — the fight or flight mode puts us in a physiological state really not meant for calm rational thinking. Low level stress is low level irrationality.
The exams are there, they’re real and need to be faced so I feel it would be good to line things up in the best way to get over what is a big mile-stone in life and then deal with relationship fall-out later on.
Lining things up means making peace with your girl. Tell it was all your fault, tell her you love her, tell you still care for her but that with the exams coming up and your head all over the place, you can’t think straight. In other words, try to “pause” that. Put on hold if possible so you can sort yourself out and your head out,
Second, get your health on track. Get a solid sleep pattern, listen to chill-out music and relaxation tapes, have warm baths, gets some exercise and eat some fruit and veg.
All these things play into the situation you’re in and therefore you can affect how you feel about everything by being calm and well rested. Get out of fight or flight asap, then you’ll see things in a different way.
As far as specifics to do with the thoughts: If your anxious… you need exercise. You have zero chance of getting clarity or thinking sanely whilst even in a mild state of anxiety.
Anxiety can become a trigger to RUN. Burn off that adrenaline asap.
After that… listen to your heart. You love this girl, i know it. Trust your heart, and so these thoughts by contrast seem silly and incongruent.
I think you can recognize them as conditioning, you have that awareness to see you created this, by playing around with one little thought. That’s the power of attention.
The beautiful thing is that this awareness will now be with you for life and you’ve learned a powerful lesson about how dangerous it is to play about and give attention to dysfunctional thoughts.
Anyway, I think I’ll leave it there just for now because you may be able to shed some more light by reading this.
There is great hope here I think. Get rid of adrenaline, relax, speak nicely to your girl, pay no attention to dysfunctional thoughts and trust your heart.
Oh and get some early nights and eat fruit! :-)
That’s a job list for you :-)
I know you have a crisis here — the sooner the better for getting on top.
I’m here for you.
Mike.
p.s. the advice about mindfulness is spot on.
Anon
I dwelled on this some more;
What would I actually do if I was you right now? Clear and simple solutions — bearing in mind that we both agree that the thoughts themselves have no validity and are simply a product of your attention.
Being in such a crisis state has one simple effective solution and that is walking, mindful walking.
It’s cheap and you can do it by just stepping outside your door. It will burn off adrenaline and the rythmic nature of walking can calm you down. You’ll also sleep better.
So I would walk walk walk keep doing it ’til you feel better!
Don’t dwell on your problems — just be present. Solutions can come from a calm and open state.
So anyway, that’s the result of my dwelling and that’s what I would do in your situation right now.
I’d walk — ’til I dropped if necessary :-)
Mike.
Really appreciate your response Mike. It means alot that I got such a lenghtly and useful response in such a short time. Thanks for your support.
In relation to your reply; we’re in a fairly peaceful situation at the moment. She knows that I love her, she knows my situation. The bf/gf feelings I have for her have been reduced quite a bit. I think that until I’m on my feet mentally again, I can consider being with her. I don’t know how long that will be however. My problem has being placing too much significance on little thoughts. Like I think every thought has an underlying message. It is comforting that she said that it didn’t matter for the moment as in a number of days, months, years etc. we eventually will get back together. Between now and that time, who knows what will happen. But she agrees I have to get back on my feet, mentally; no matter how I feel.
The more I think about my feelings, the more there’s a chance for distortion. I saw my counsellor tonight, and said similar things to what you suggested. It’s all down to not placing so much signifance on thoughts, and live to some extent not so analytical and be a bit more carefree.
I’m not longer going to be discussing my mind with X. Simply because it’s not helping either of us, and ultimately I want us to have fun as best friends.
What are your thoughts on this?
Thank you so much once again.
God Bless
hey mike
its me again lol..hey on the thought process of tracing back to the moment and gettting rid of it..well out of all honesty ive dealt with it alot better but at times it comes back and brings me down im tired of it..but what i really want to know is what is it?is it just the fact that when it happened it scared me?cuz i never had it before and it screwed me up for a bit and i just want to know if itll seriously ever mildly begin to fade away, because since then its been easy to deal with along with the fact that it is in a way fading more and more
write me back when you get the chance, because idk if its due to the fact that i dont have much going on in life, meaning like im bored all day and i currently do not have a job and im just going to school, or maybe my mind has a habit to think about this nonsense at times
thanks mike
Hi Anon,
Carefree yes. The problem is that any time you try to “become” something like carefree, you create an image and then act it out. It’s role playing. You play the role of carefree.
You should become who you are naturally by letting go of all mental labels about yourself. This is hard but you do it by meditation.
The gf situation is stable so that is good. It goves you space to settle a while.
As far as discussing your feelings and thoughts with x: I think you are open and honest and that is a wonderful quality only in-as-much as it is a natural quality and not a forced ideal.
When you are in a calm place, your awareness naturally expands and any action you take comes out of that awareness. You will then tend to do what is right for the whole situation.
In that state, openess and honesty tend to shine through because you have a greater connection — a true connection which those around you.
The goal is to find your natural self by letting go of all the mental stuff.
In general, don’t attach importance to thoughts. When a thought comes that is important, you’ll recognize it anyway by it’s qualities of intensity and “rightness.”
Let go of as much as possible and live in the present moment.
Be mindful ALWAYS of the present and meditate as much as possible.
And don’t forget your health. Mind is not independent of body.
Mike.
Hi again Tyler,
Yes I would say boredom is a factor because attention is everything. If you’re bored, then you have more time to dwell on dangerous ideas :-) The devil makes work… and all that.
Boredom seems to me to be created when a person is quite entrenched in ego-consciousness. Because the ego mind wants entertainment, it always wants to be entertained and gets bored when there’s no entertainment.
I remember reading a while back about someone who meditated for two whole days or something and was just fascinated for hours by ants on the wall.
I get this. Fascination and deep contentment are aspects of your true self. In fact, in NLP, fascination is considered to be “the most desirable state.”
There are many factors playing into your situation — your level of awareness, fear of the initial thought, yes, boredom, giving the thought undue importance.
The state of fear or anxiety amplifies the process of conditioning many many times. So I can see that if the inital thought you had scared you, then that’s what amplified it and made it a problem.
The only process you need to fully be clear on is that you ignore unwanted thoughts. Attention is everything.
These thoughts have a primitive mechanism. You need discernment to be above that. I.e. you choose “yes” or “no” to every thought.
Thoughts are not you, you must choose which ones to hold on to and which to let go. Choose carefully :-)
If they are dying away it’s because you’re paying less attention.
Cheers!
Mike.
thanks mike!..but i do have one more question to ask lol well for now..but do foreign thoughts that you usually do not have and they pop into mind randomly, can those thoughts affect somebody? like you said thoughts arent you and its incredible how the mind works, it was all becuase of one night that i was laying in bed and randomly this dumb thought of what would happen if i shot myself popped into mind, yet im not that type of person and that thought wasnt me and it wasnt out of choice,and to top that i did have a gun in my house which of course just fueled the fire even more freaking the heck out of me i started thinking if im mentally ill and just fear and soon it just bundled up messing up my mental state and to this day it still lingers there as if its a habit to think about it i hate it
Hi Tyler,
I can really see now why this thought upset you! Of course, you can’t seperate the thousands of other life factors including ever thought you ever had, from your state of mind right now.
What triggered this doesn’t really matter as much as what you do with it. For all you know it could have been a movie you saw when you were 10 years old. Perhaps sensory impressions triggered a memory, perhaps you were feeling low as well, it could be so many things.
I wanted to die many many times during 13 years of living hell with chronic fatigue. During that time my mental state was mainly one of groggy foggy hangover and a feeling that I would like a big hole to open up and swallow me whole :-)
If that helps any :-)
You could just be amused by the random thought. I guess the fact that it was so out of character is what shocked you so much. I can really understand that.
Try to really take on the attitude that it’s just silly thoughts. Be light hearted about it.
It’s so easy to create mental monsters by focusing on dysfunctional thoughts. I really think the amount of negativity in film and on TV as well as the values of society make it really hard for many young people whose minds are so impressionable.
I saw a TV program last night about an eight year old with anorexia. No different from my perspective than OCD or many other mental issues. It’s different aspects of the same issues;
Poor enviroment — too much negativity and not enough love and nurture. Not enough education for kids to “know themselves.”
Will finish this in a bit… need to go just now :-)
bfn
Mike.
Hi again Tyler,
Ok I’ll try to finish your question now :-) I was going off at a tangent anyway.
Random thoughts can be conditioning that are triggered by another thought or even a smell or an external event. It could be so many things like I said.
And so many things also play into the quality of thoughts you have… like if you are well rested, have eaten well, whether you feel good about your life and so on.
It’s all incredibly complex but in terms of what you need to do it’s incredibly simple. You choose “do I pay attention to this or not.”
Thoughts are information that’s all. Some are quality thoughts and some are garbage — a lot depends on the quality you “put in.” You know, garbage in, garbage out!
The fear reaction you had to the thought is probably why it’s hanging around. If you think about it, it’s emotional fear that you attach to images in scary films that keep them coming back.
When you fear something you tell your mind you’re in danger and so naturally, that primitive part of the mind will do it’s best to protect you from what you fear. It will keep reminding you about the danger!
You have to tell that part that the fear is gone by attaching “unimportance” to that thought now. Having the attitude “oh that’s just that silly thought” and ignoring it, it will go away it time.
What you don’t do is fuel it by attention. Attention turns up the volume, ignoring turns down the volume.
Remember that and you have tremendous power over your life. “Do I pay attention to this or not.” One of the most powerful things you can say to yourself!!
Mike.
exactly! mike thats just what it is and like i said im not that type of person at all..and i thank you alot mike your a powerful great guy and i know that you help people out in times of annoying thoughts!
mike GOd bless you
tyler
Thank you Tyler. Peace :-)
so can this maybe be a symptom of OCD?..because i do understand that OCD invovles constant unwanted thoughts that could be very uncomfortable
Hi Tyler,
From my perspective. OCD is just a label for an extreme example of the issues we all face.
Anyone can create a monster by focusing on a scary thought and building and building until it’s obsessive and compulsive. It’s a matter of degree.
Keep it simple. Choose “yes” or “no.” Do I give this attention or not?
Like I said in the article, putting your attention onto something else is sometimes hard but you do your best.
The fact that you asked this questions tells me you’re probably still dwelling on this.
How do you ignore someone in real life even if they are bugging you? You “ignore.” You don’t give attention even when they are demanding it.
The thought is primitive. It thinks it serves you because you initially attached great importance to it.
Don’t think around this. DON’T try to figure out how to get rid of it, what it means, if you’re ill, if you’re going to get ill, what triggered it, why is it here, Am I crazy?
All this is more attention which FEEDS it.
No attention to do with anything related to this thought. As you become aware of something related to this, focus intensely on an external object. Do it quick, nip it in the bud. You’ll get good at it and then it will become a good habit.
Don’t be on your guard. When a thought comes, you have a simple plan, don’t look for it or watch for it coming. That is more attention.
No attention.
Hi there Mike.
I won’t go into detail too much because I need to study for exams. But last week a [moderated] thought came into my head. Unfortunately I’ve latched onto it. I don’t believe it for a second, but it’s getting in the way of my brain and thinking. I am really over this. Please help what can I do?
I know it’s not true, but I need it out of my brain.
Hi Anon,
There’s so many factors feeding into what thoughts arise that there’s no point trying to untangle all that.
Habit is a massive factor, but also your lifestyle — whether you slept well, stress levels, nutrition and so-on.
The content of the thought or what made it come up are not the important things.
As you say… you KNOW the thought is wrong/dysfunctional.
Choose.
“yes” or “no” to giving it more attention.
Attention is everything. Attention is the volume control for thoughts.
Last night I had a deepy disturbing dream. Luckily I know what to do but I can easily see how it would be easy to dwell on that dream I had — what does it mean? Is it a premonition? Blah blah.
I know that attention is the key. Even though there are still emotional reminants from that dream that linger, I know they’ll go in a little while if I pay no attention and attach no importance to flashes from the dream or the emotions.
You can’t get rid of unwanted thoughts directly. You do it by letting them go — by not attaching importance to them and then paying attention to something else.
A critical component is your level of consciousness of ability to disidentify with the content of thought and say “here I am and there is the thought/feeling.”
Be careful what you feed your mind and what you pay attention to!
Let me know how you get on.
Mike
Thanks Mike. It just get’s extremely difficult once I latch on to let go. As I’ve told you before about X. Since I last spoke, we’ve gotten back together again. Because I know that the thoughts aren’t true and that I love her. And it’s hurting both of us by attaching meaning to my thoughts. Just lately following a small argument we had, some thoughts have gotten into my brain. Just small things which I’ve been analysing, which are really starting to frustrate me. Just in relation to how much she talks to me, and what she says to me. I really don’t wanna think about those negative thoughts, because I know they’re not real at all. But equally, I want to be able to think about her in general. Like nice thoughts about everything about her. But I want to do this without suddenly triggering my mind off. Thoughts?
Thank you again so much.
Hi Anon,
Lifestyle is the solution to better quality thoughts. In the moment, once a thought arises, you choose “yes” or “no” to giving it more attention.
You, at least, can recognize that the quality of these thoughts are poor. Therefore choose “no.”
Yes it is very difficult once you latch on. The very word you used there implies attachment and ownership.
You chose “yes” at an earlier point and built this thought up and made it part of “you.” You attached yourself.
The low level stress of your exams will be playing into this. Are you in “fight or flight” mode or relaxed? Anxiety states produce very irrational thoughts because that state is not designed for you to be rational. It’s designed to save your life in a crisis, when your life is threatened. It’s not a state you want to be in for more than a few seconds.
To think better thoughts about x and about your life you need to address all your lifestyle factors. Every single thing affects every other thing.
Listen to relaxation cd’s, exercise, eat plenty of fruits and veg, MEDITATE! Evern a few minutes a day will help.
Get all the lifestyle factors into a habit so that creating quality thoughts is effortless.
Body and mind are not separate. For example — the disturbing dream I had? Because I ate late at night. Partially digested food affects your brain! It’s the same blood circulating in your brain as the rest of your body.
Everything affects every other thing. Walking is a great balancer in a crisis.
It’s a two prong attack :-) In the moment it’s always simple — “yes” or “no.” But the quality of thoughts AND you ability to say yes or no depend on your overall STATE of being and that is caused by your lifestyle.
What do you think about that?
Mike.
That makes a lot of sense Mike, thanks. Really appreciate your reply. My counsellor said also that he is expecting that these thoughts will decrease dramatically once exams are over
Anon,
I had a couple more ideas about your situation. It seems that certain things about x are irritating you?
Your relationship obviously has complexities that I’m not aware of but maybe you’re not communicating 100%?
If something she does is irritating then it’s perfectly ok to say so as long as it’s done in a loving way so that she doesn’t take it as an attack on her.
Do it light-heartedly with a smile and it will be ok.
If I have something to say, I usually “file it” and mark it “to be brought up at the opportune moment.”
The moment will come and you can drop in what you need to say with a smile and a loving heart.
Hope this helps,
Mike.
Cheers Mike. Yeah. Some small things were, but I brought them up today and it’s better now.
So you’re saying by the way, (just reading over your previous comment)that whenever I feel or think something I don’t wanna feel; distract myself and reshape? No matter what the thought? Because I got one about one of my good friends whose a girl. I wanna still be able to see her and talk to her without that thought coming along. Would you say it’s just a matter of ignoring it till it goes? And just getting my lifestyle back in order without analysing?
Hi Anon,
Exactly right.
Hi there again Mike
I was wondering, (and it may not be your field of expertise) your view on looking at other girls. I find it really counterproductive. Because I seem to latch onto those feelings, and almost end up comparing. I know people normally can be able to look or ‘check out’ other people whilst going out. I want to be able to think someone is attractive without having to attach negative thoughts to these.
Any ideas? Sorry to constantly write in!
God bless
“I want to be able to think someone is attractive without having to attach negative thoughts to these.”
Then do that :-) Sounds like a plan to me :-)
It hadn’t escaped me that a lot of these unwanted thoughts are to do with girls :-)
Being attracted to other girls is perfectly natural. That is just nature and it’s also just information in the sense that you only ever experience your own nervous system.
Your instintive conditioning creates the feelings of attraction.
What you DO with that information is your choice (ideally).
I have to tell you that inital attraction can quickly turn into something else once you get to really know the person!
If you are going out with x, then wanting someone else is going to damage your relationship. Is that what you want?
You always have choice.
There’s a big difference between looking and seeking. Enjoy what is natural but choose what’s best for you and those around you.
I think your above plan is a good one, go for that.
Mike
p.s. you think too much. :-)
Try not actively thinking for a while and rather, see what thoughts arise.
After a while, you’ll see they are better quality thoughts in general.
So then you choose — do I pay attention or not. If yes, you may want to consciously think for a while — this is choiceful thinking not mind chatter.
Then… reshape… go back to not thinking again.
p.p.s.
I LOVE what you said in that earlier message
“Distract myself and reshape”
BRILLIANT
keep doing that for the rest of your life and you’ll be very happy!!
Thoughts are essentially a disturbance of your “shape.”If you get too many thoughts, then you become very DISTURBED :-)
Distract and reshape…. always!
Mike.
I don’t want to get to know anyone or jeopradise what me and X have. That’s what I’m afraid of. Ideally, and this is just me, I just want to be attracted to X and not notice other girls. But I think how I got in this place in the first place may have been related to noticing other girls were attractive and I started freaking out.
I’m not the cheating time at all. I wouldn’t dream of cheating, but when thoughts like ‘oh that girl is attractive’ pop into my head I start feeling like I’m hurting her, or something along those lines. Or my mind will end up comparing or whatever. Which is not something I want because what X and I have is so amazing. I would give the world to keep it.
This line sort of scared me a bit.
“I have to tell you that inital attraction can quickly turn into something else once you get to really know the person!”
Because like, the thoughts that come into my head about my other best friends who are girls, I know them really well, but I wouldn’t want to date them. Lately I’ve almost being avoiding them out of fear that thoughts will arise in my head. Any advice here? Would it just be better to face them head on and just distract myself if something pops into my heaD?
Also, another thought popped into my head. About next year and University. I’ll be in a place without my friends and especially X. I’m worried like, that it’s gonna be really hard with my thoughts how they are because I’m afraid I might think a girl is attractive or feel something for them. And I don’t want that to happen at all. I wanna get a good mix of friends - guys and girls without having to worry about having strong feelings there. It’s just that I haven’t been to a new environment before since Year 5 when I first went to my old school. And I’m freaking out. I know me and X will be as strong as possible once I get through this but I’m afraid thoughts might come flooding back.
Would the best option be.. hypothetically speaking; to simply say - there’s the thought, it doesn’t have to be part of me unless I consider it. I choose not to accept it, and believe it to be ‘just a thought’. And move on from it? To some extent though I wouldn’t know whether or not the thought was true or not. Or would I? And if it was even true.. is it possible to just disregard it - say ‘no’ and reshape etc. Because obviously if I was still going out with X (most likely and what I want more than anything) that thought we would be a negative one. Hence, I’d need to disregard it and not consider it.
Thoughts on this?
I’m so so tired of these hypothetical situations and worrying over every little detail. It’s ripping me to shreds and I’m so tired of it all.
Thanks again.
In relation to what I just wrote. Does it not matter if a thought has some basis of truth to it? Just if it’s unwanted.. that’s the difference. Like obviously.. I am scared out of my wits if I go to Uni first day and feel something for a girl there.Because that would hurt me and X. Would that just be classified as unwanted? And let it go? You can see how this is spiralling inside my head haha..
Hi Anon,
Yes, what you say is right… it doesn’t matter whether thoughts are true or not, just whether they are wanted. Specifically… “do I want to give this more attention.”
It may be fear of losing x that’s partly fuelling this, like I said there are many factors but straight away, from now on, try not to fuel this “problem” with more attention.
I put problem in quotes because it’s largely a self created problem. You are trying to find an intellectual answer to prevent an unwanted scenario.
That can’t happen because you create pain mentality by building up projected events in your mind.
You know what you want clearly. Just be at peace with that and see what happens. Drop the “what if’s.” Keep reshaping when any thought comes up to do with this subject.
You’ve already thought over and over about this without solution so the chances of finding one are about zero. That’s because you can’t intellectually protect yourself from every single possibility of life.
You don’t need to protect yourself from feelings for other people. It’s actually fine to feel even deep love for another person and yet still be with x.
It’s all ok.
I know you perhaps can’t see this right now but meditation and living a healthy life solves all these problems. When you become rooted in something deeper, you have a strong sense of “everything will be ok whatever happens” and then life events are just fun things that happen.
It’s become a habit to worry about this so it’s going to take quite a bit of awareness and constant reshaping to get back to a calm state of mind.
This post has all the tips and tricks you need now and I think you’ve got a very good handle on what needs to be done.
Let it ALL go, everything, and find a place of no thought. Stop thinking altogether and just observe thoughts coming and going.
There is no active thinking need for this subject anymore.
Once you get the hang of this, you will love it! You will become naturally who you are, rooted in who you are — which is the space or awareness of thought.
Once you’ve mastered watching thoughts come and go then you simply choose to pay more attention or not. Somethings need more attention.
It’s about driving your own mental car.
Let it all go and see what comes up. Observe what comes up with curiosity before diving in with all the intellectualizng.
Thoughts come and thoughts go and you remain aware.
You won’t lose anything… you will GAIN, because that greater awareness IS more intelligent. No thinking required.
Try it… see what happens.
It’s not easy because it’s a habit to keep thinking, keep thinking, keep thinking. But once you get out of that…. it’s RELIEF!!
The line that scared you a bit… I was just saying really that all that glitters isn’t gold. That’s my experience anyway.
Trust in yourself that whatever feelings you have for other people… girls or guys, it’s all great. Drop all the mental strategies and take life one moment at a time.
You know the phrase “wake up and smell the roses”? It just means that to enjoy life you need to pay attention to right now.
The more you do that, the more joy there will be. Because all mental attention is an abstraction of life. Of course, we sometimes want and need to think but most of the time we should be smelling the roses.
Like I said, I think you’ve really got it now. You know what needs to be done. All the old way will still hang around for a while but the plan is very simple. Distract and reshape.
Keep doing that.
The old thoughts may trick you with a sense of importance. They are not. You know you want to be with x. That’s all you need to know for now.
Let everything else go.
Distract and reshape.
Thanks once again. I want to let these go but often it becomes too much and I wanna find a solution. I just need to distract and reshape..
When you say it’s possible to have deep love for someone and still be with X… do you mean as friends? Because I do have deep love for my friends. If I had deep love in a more than friends way that would tear me apart. Like really. I’m not sure what you meant there. I don’t think it’s a good thing to feel more than friends love with anyone other than X.
I want to lose this worry more than anything… I just want to snap my fingers and lose it. I’m so tired of analysing. Gahhhh
Hi Anon, yes definitely friends love.
True love is not needy or wanting anyway.
Sometimes we can get so enmeshed in thinking that it seems there is no way out.
If there’s too much mental noise, try focusing on something external. Anything, it doesn’t matter what. Give ALL your attention to it til things go quiet again inside.
You are learning something new here and you can’t expect immediate results. It takes persistance.
The plan is simple but not easy. But the beauty is in it’s simplicity.
Imagine your mind is a lake. You want the surface of the lake to be very calm.
Thoughts are like throwing a pebble in.
They create a bit of disturbance and then it all settles again.
Most peoples experience is that the surface of their lake is never calm. Imagine 10 pebbles at once, 100, 1000?
Try to get you lake calm :-)
and then notice each pebble on it own, wait for calm again.
You need to remove attention from your head. That’s why I say focus on something external. You can also focus on your body parts as an alternative.
If your mind is very active — try your feet! They’re furthest away from your head :-)
Mike.
Once again, I can’t thank you enough. It’s just about retraining my brain. And I wanna do this sooner rather than later.
Sorry just clarifying.. what do you mean by..
“True love is not needy or wanting anyway.”
Thank you so much
Love is what you are. And therefore needs nothing.
for me, probably the most beautiful words ever written are the bible description of love… hold on I will get them for you.
The Way of Love
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith,so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
Ok to clariy a bit…
What most people talk of as love isn’t true love but intense wanting and neediness.
True love is the recognition of yourself in another!
You are love in the deepest sense. You are made out of it! :-)
Well in that case; I’d like to think that what me and X have is true love. We are entirely ourselves with eachother and have eachother’s complete recognition and acceptance. The problem is though I don’t wanna define love. I don’t want to look it up on the internet looking for an answer. I want to feel true love. And I think I have ever since I laid eyes on her.
Thanks again Mike.
Although I do have to some extent - some wanting and neediness. Are you saying this should be limited a bit? And just don’t force it? Just feel it?
I think I have true love though..
Yes, just feel it — if you are aware of neediness just be aware of it.
“there is neediness in me”
I noticed it.
Then move on.
Reshape always.
Love cannot easily be defined. The bible definition is good but “a finger poiting to the moon is not the moon.”
I’m sorry to continue this back and forth haha. (Hope it’s not annoying..)
How would you define neediness?
Neediness is created by ego consciousness. So whilst a person is identified with a projected self-image, there will always be neediness.
The ego seeks to be completed at a future point and therefore seeks to gain stuff to achieve that aim.
Love (who you are) is already whole and therefore needs nothing in a spiritual sense.
Neediness is a sense of lacking, of incompleteness.
Whilst I am sometimes egotistical. I feel complete with her. Thank you Mike. I feel a lot better after talking to you. I just want to capitalize on this feeling and feel like this always
God bless
Thank you. You are most welcome :-)
mike! whats happening brother?
hey ive gotten everything pretty much sorted out, i went to the psychologist and talked to him, he said that i just need to use the “thought stopping” process although at the time i latched onto it and it bothered me of course and was a habit it still lingers here and there but i just think thats becuase i had it as a habit for so long, now all i can do is ignore it and stop it as well as letting time take place and that does alot as well..it was funny because he said it was totally normal i just need to not think things like that, becuase at this age (18) the mind is going to transformations and is maturing, this also includes my stress and anxiety levels as well, its all really interesting but at the same time i need to not over analyze things so much (atleast do not analyze the bad things) cuz then that just continues to escalade and turns into something that isnt true, ive found out alot from him and ive gone through this week and last week pretty well and normal lol, he also asked me if it was effecting my daily life such as school, friends, etc. i said at first it did but now it was just there, he went through things that stuck to his mind for some weeks but over time it begins to disapear, but like i said it comes here and there but that just means i worry to much about it (just ignore) lol
Hey Tyler!
Oh that’s absolutely wonderful! My friend (in the article) was also seeing a psychologist for many years. Sometimes it’s great to hear the same truth from a few places. It helps us to believe that truth.
Yes I think maturity is a big part of it too. A little girl I know is scared of skeletons in the alley way. I used to see faces in my bedroom curtains that would scare me to death!
Thanks so much for writing in. I get concerned sometimes about people who write in in a bad state of mind and then I don’t hear from them any more and I just want to know they’re OK.
What you’ve learned about thoughts will be with you for life and it’s powerful stuff to know. As well as protecting you from damaging ideas that could become monsters you’ll also know that thinking actually creates you, in a way.
What you put your attention to is what ends up in your brain — your map that represents reality.
Thanks again for your upbeat message. It was lovely to hear from you!
Mike.
Hi Mike. I’m having unwanted thoughts again. Just relating to her physique. Or her looks, however you wanna put it. She is utterly gorgeous but my mind is almost mocking her and putting these untrue thoughts which I know for certain aren’t true. I can’t stand this, why can’t it just go away. I tried to distract myself, I did that for a bit but then it just got harder. And the thoughts are growing. I got an exam tomorrow and I’m stressing out about that and also my mind is going haywire about X. And we had like the perfect day today, I don’t know what to do. It just seems to latch onto good things.
Please help
Hi Anon,
I know you’re having a tough time at the moment. I think the stress of your exams is the major factor.
I do know people who, when under pressure, will attack other people psychologically — a bit like your mocking of x.
I think it’s a primitive defence mechanism.
As I said before, the stress response, the physiological state of stress is not good for rationality.
Keep to the program and just get through this difficult time with as must dignity as you can. As you said, you and x had a great day — so it ain’t all bad.
Recognize the thoughts as garbage, as a primitive knee-jerk reaction to the stress you’re under.
I notice my brain will sometimes produce these mocking, culturally conditioned thoughts — triggered by something I see for example.
Trust your heart and not your thoughts.
Keep ignoring unwanted thoughts and focus on getting through your exams. Don’t make them important. Just see them for what they are and release them. That’s all.
I’m sure things will settle once your exams are done.
Mike
I guess it’s just because it’s her, you know? She’s one of the greatest things going for me in my life. She means the world to me. It just hurts because they thoughts are suggesting that what I’m thinking is the truth, when it’s not at all. And I know that, it’s just hard because it just latches onto really small things. Like if she wears her hair in a ‘bad’ way or something really stupid like that. I think this is the thought that started it all. So I’m trying to get through it as best as I can, but it’s really hurting.
Hi Anon,
I totally understand really I do but I also think that things are much better than you realize.
You are seeing the thoughts as “not you” already. And that’s a great thing. Many folks believe their thoughts are them. They are identified with every thought so that’s a much bigger problem.
The thoughts themselves are likely to be culturally conditioned. By that I mean you’ve learned to mock peoples imperfections by picking it up from peers and perhaps family.
The stress of your exams is playing into this too and also it’s a slim possibility that part of you is sabotaging the relationship because of unconscious fears relating to it.
A lot of the thought generation process is reactive. There is no intelligence in it. To be free of the conditioned mind you have to be able to recognize it as “not you” — you got that part down and then choose something different.
That means withdrawing attention from conditioned reactive thought loops.
View thoughts as information. Just information you can choose to pay attention to or not. All your power is in choosing the focus of your attention.
I like to play visualization games too to reprogramme unwanted thoughts — like wrapping them up in fine silk till I can’t “see” them anymore. Then it explodes into a billion tiny pieces and floats of into the sky… or something like that :-)
Or I may morph it into a ball and catapult it into oblivion.
Or I may just say “thanks for that, but I don’t want or need any more thoughts like that — you can stop telling me about that.”
It might sound crazy to talk to your own mind but I reckon it help. You’re feeding your subconscious mind with ideas about what you do want it to tell you about.
When these mocking thoughts come, try to laugh about it. That’s about the level of importance you should give them. X sounds like a wonderful person and it truly is laughable that she should be mock for a hair style.
You know that, I know it. So don’t take these thoughts seriously. Laugh them off, catapult them into oblivion and think about something else.
It’s a powerful process once you learn it but it’s early days. It’s simple yes but not always easy. Don’t be too hard on yourself.
Soon, the exams will be done and I’m sure things will settle down too.
Keep in touch.
Mike.
Thanks once again Mike. It’s just hard cause they seem so important. Like I had one earlier today about whether I really want to be with her or not. And that hurts to some extent, I suppose. It fills me with a sense of doubt. The strength of them and like the nature of them make them seem important. When I know they’re not. I’ve discarded them and basically said these thoughts are coming in due to factors like tiredness, exhaustion etc. I just seem to latch on to very small things, that’s all, which I’d rather not think about.
I wanna keep going, I don’t wanna give up or give in to thoughts. Because essentially they’re not me. They are just putting things in my mind which I don’t need. And I just really wanna go back to when I didn’t have any bad thoughts. It’s obvious none of it is true.. Simply because I’ve had SO many thoughts about varying people. It’s just creating doubt, and it just really hurts. Because they hurt, I feel the need to combat them with good thoughts.. when I really need to ignore them. Just sometimes they’ll cross my mind and inbed in there for a bit.
I guess I just need to be reminded that the thoughts aren’t me. They aren’t true, and they certaintly aren’t wanted. I just need that constant reassurance until it goes at the moment.
I just need to know that if I keep doing what I’m doing - ignoring them; that they will subside. I just hate them getting ingrained in my brain - creating doubt and making me think something is the truth.
Also, (sorry to write again) I’ve had a thought again about the balance between physical and non-physical intimacy in relationships. In terms of how much time spent doing one or the other. I don’t want to analyse such a silly thing. As we spend plenty of time talking and sharing and whatnot. We also spend time being intimate. I don’t want to analyse a ‘balance’ or whatever. I just want to go with the flow, and stop creating such stupid doubt.
Hi Anon,
I think you’re right… it’s tiredness and exhaustion and stress. As a dad, I see the power of a bad nights sleep in my son’s behavior. The “quality” of his thoughts goes from one extreme to another.
From an angel to a little demon!!
It’s the same person but the tiredness is behind the behavior.
Of course, small children don’t have the same control as adults but adults are not immune to “not checking enough health boxes.”
The solution to unwanted thoughts “in the moment” is always to observe and choose — remove attention from unwanted thoughts. But the quality of thoughts and your ability to choose is SERIOUSLY affected by your state of health and specifically your biochemical state — which of course is caused by your lifestyle.
Lack of sleep and lack of food causes kids to throw a wobbler. Same for adults too!
With regards intimacy, you’re right again… go with the flow and not so much analysis. Take on more of the attitude “whatever happens is ok.”
This attitide is more likely to make everything ok because you’ll stop trying to control every little thing. Nor do you need to control every little thing… just your stuff, your choices.
Mike.
The more I trample negative thoughts, the easier it will be to think about X. Would you say this is a fair statement? Currently I’m almost stamping them out, and they then remain on my conscience a bit. Then when I try to think good thoughts or just general thoughts about X, I’m almost scared negative thoughts will latch onto that. Because they are making me doubt if I’m not immediately thinking in a positive manner about her. There’s all the issue of reassurance. Cuase when I’m away from her my mind often gets boggling.
It just seems once I’ve subsided those thoughts, there’s always a little bit of doubt left, sort of planning to cling onto something or other.
I just need to know what to do one I’ve let these thoughts subside temporarily.
Hi Anon,
“The more I trample negative thoughts, the easier it will be to think about X. Would you say this is a fair statement?”
The more your mind is calm, the easier it will be to think consciously and deliberately.
You don’t need to be vigilant against unwanted negative thoughts coming back or attaching. That’s giving them more attention. You’re keeping half an eye on them.
Tramping is fine btw, but not suppression… because suppression is a constant “holding down” and that means giving it attention.
Yes, thoughts and feelings often linger a while. Same program — don’t give the remnants more attention.
Instead of focusing on thinking positive thoughts, focus on no-thinking. Create gaps in the constant mental babble.
Distract and reshape remember?
Always come back to your shape… your center. A place of no-thought where there is only intense awareness. The only place where you can “smell the roses.”
Mike.
Sorry, I didn’t get what you meant by not thinkng positive thoughts? You mean I shouldn’t be spending time thinking good thoughts about X? Because it doesn’t seem too logical. Sorry could you go over that bit again.
Thanks
I mean you don’t need to constantly think positive thoughts about x in order to control and manipulate the situation or how you feel about her.
It’s simpler than that.
Keep your shape (let go of everything) and see what comes up.
If it’s unwanted then ignore it. If it’s wanted then give it a bit of attention or enjoy it but it’s also ok to just let go of positive stuff.
It’s that simple. No need to cling.
Okay, I get what you’re saying. It just sort of raises questions.. like when can I think about X? When I’m in a good place with no negative thoughts at all?
You can think what you like, when you like if that’s your choice.
What we don’t want is choiceless thinking or clinging.
Does that make sense? If you want to give me a specific example I may be able to explain it better.
No that’s fine. It makes sense. I’d just prefer to be positive and clingy, rather than dwelling constantly on negatives and untrue thoughts.
Could you possibly write up a 5-10 step method of what I need to do to get back to my old self? Just so it’s clear and concise.
Thank you.
Just currently it feels like I sometimes force positive thoughts to come in. And there’s nothing wrong with that right? I do let them flow often, but occasionally I need those forced positive thoughts to remind me of how great I have it, and that there’s nothing to fear.
Back before this all began, I didn’t force these feelings as much. It just feels when I’m in this sort of state.. that if I don’t have some outlet for positive thoughts once in a while, that negative thoughts will impersonate the truth.
1. Look after your lifestyle. Get enough, sleep, exercise, good food etc.
2. Stay in your “shape.” Your grounded place is a place of no-thought, a state of “let-go-ness.” Make sure there are gaps between thoughts. Stay centered. From here you can choose to think what you like.
3. When thoughts come up, make a quick choice — “do i pay attention to this or not.”
4. If not, distract yourself by intensely focusing on an external object (whist repeating the sarcred incantation “blah blah blah blah” or “shhhhhh” to drown out the unwanted thought).
5. Go to number two.
“Just currently it feels like I sometimes force positive thoughts to come in.”
Hmmm my gut feeling is it’s ok and long as it’s not trying to cling. Dwelling on happy thoughts is a very nice thing to do. But keep going back to your place of no-thought. The gaps are important!
Like we said before, I think your current situation is feeding all this (tiredness, exams etc) so really that needs to be addressed before it will be resolved.
Do you have a lot of caffeine?
I understand entirely about the gaps. That way I’m living in the moment more. I just want to treasure every moment and not analyse so much.
I never really have caffeine. I dislike soft drinks and coffee is a one off treat from the local Starbucks haha.
Hi Anon,
I’m James Riddett, I’m Mike’s brother and partner on Habit Guide. I hope you don’t mind me chipping in but I might be able to shed more light.
I think everything Mike has told you is fantastic advice. What you need to do is very simple but I know it’s not always easy.
You’re suffering from being dominated by thought. I was exactly the same for years at school. My head was constantly full of mental problems and scenarios and ‘what ifs’. It drove me crazy…
I learned to ‘reset’ my mind — that was how if felt to me.
It was like.. ‘ok… just relax and reset. Start again from zero.’ And I had to do it MANY times before I got the amazing peace of mind that I enjoy these days.
Keep doing it and be patient. No stress, don’t rush it.
At the moment, you’re trying to fight fire with fire. This is completely understandable — I did the exact same thing.
You’re trying to come to a mental conclusion to what’s troubling you. You’re trying to ‘work it out’ mentally. Your mind believes there is a complex, logical formula that — when you hit it — will give you the answer. And when you have it, you’ll be happy and free from unwanted thoughts.
But you CAN’T resolve it logically. It’s not a math problem.
Because it’s the endless thinking that IS the problem. I know this may sounds hard to believe, but I promise it’s the truth. The answer is to actually get your mind to shut the **** up! :)
It’s your mind’s endless chatter and ‘what if this’ and ‘what if there’s some truth in that?’ that’s bringing you down and making you feel so bad.
I have an empty head most of the time. That may not sound like an ideal state, but I promise you it is. It allows you to choose your thoughts, and when they arise on their own, you can choose which ones to give attention. I DO get dark thoughts very occasionally, but they get no attention from me and disappear quickly.
I’m also very careful what I feed my mind… no horror movies, not too depressing news on TV and so-on.
I believe the answer for you is very simple. And I know Mike will back me up on this. Concentrate on giving yourself the healthiest lifestyle you can. Again, it may feel like a bit of a leap of faith, but I promise you it will help a LOT.
Also, if you get into meditation, or just spend a few minutes a day being quiet and still, and watching your thoughts, you’ll feel the control coming back to you.
I also recommend my little method of ‘resetting’ your mind when you want to. It’s probably very similar to what you describe as ‘reshaping’ which is a lovely image.
At the moment, you’re fighting fire with fire — you’re trying to get rid of thoughts by firing more thoughts at them.
Concentrate on resetting your mind when needed, meditating and living as healthily as possible and I promise, you’ll feel the control coming back…
Keep doing that and one day, you’ll be amazed at how troubled your mind used to be. You’ll be amazed that you spent so long worrying about things. :)
Hope this helps.
Best wishes,
James
Thanks very much James for your insight. It’s exactly right in terms of the complex formula. I don’t know why I continue to analyse. Just part of me thinks magically I’m gonna strike the hidden pot of gold or the hidden answer.
When you say - ’start again from zero’ - I’ve been doing that to some extent by combatting the thoughts with a simple ‘You know the truth, this thought isn’t real’. Unfortunately I begin to expand on that and I start to get stuck in a constant fight with my mind. Just again - ’start again from zero’, is that just saying.. those thoughts aren’t real; try and gain a clear head? Are you saying I shouldn’t fire positive thoughts at all at those negative ones? And just ignore till it subsides? Just sometimes I need a bit of a reassurance or a wakeup call that it’s not real and its not the truth, you know?
I know I am making some progress, slowly but surely. I just don’t want to backfire like last time and give in - thinking wrongly that they are the truth. I’ve been doing a lot more exercise, and getting to bed early. Meditation is a little tough to get used to. Just getting into the habit of watching my thoughts with no judgement is the key though.
I came up with a little saying to say to myself; - ‘Even the worst and most damaging storm eventually subsides’. What do you think?
I just want to thank you and Mike once again. This blog has been terrific in getting my mind in a better state. I feel I’m slowly but surely making my way towards how I used to be. I’m sorry for clogging it up with my endless posts! But it’s just about reassurance, you know?
God bless.
Hi Anon,
Don’t worry about “clogging” the post. That’s the beauty of blogs — it’ll help other folks who have similar issues but are maybe too shy to comment.
“Just getting into the habit of watching my thoughts with no judgement is the key though.”
That’s it in a nutshell. This positive thought thing hasn’t been sitting right with me and now I know why.
You’re making it into a battle and that is fuelling the process.
Another way to look at this is that you always have a focus and you should know what that focus is. Say your walking, then just focus on walking — I think your counsellor mentioned mindfulness if I remember correctly.
Once you know what your focus is you have a frame of reference… an anchor.
Then it’s easier to notice an attention shift.
When you have “stormy waters” then you need a big effort to hold you attention onto what you want.
But then it’s gets quiet, then it’s easy to do.
But a brilliant question to ask yourself is “where is my attention.”
In stormy waters it’s good to have an external focus or at least into your body and away from your head. Too much head attention makes it more difficult for the storm to go away. You are feeding it with energy because energy follows attention.
Positive thoughts are not really the goal because every positive thought automatically contains it’s negative opposite as a frame of reference.
But who you really are — beyond thinking is the “good which has no opposite.”
That is allowed to shine when your full attention is in the flow of the present moment.
Watching with no judgement means there has to be space between you and thought and that is what you want. The awareness in that space already knows the quality of the thought before you make it into words so you don’t really need to.
Watching for thoughts with no judgement. That is a perfect plan.
Oh and excellent job getting your lifestyle on track. It’s massive that. Keep trying with meditation. 5 mins here and there is a good start. You don’t need to make it a big deal.
If you want to counter it with something… try the sacred incantation I mentioned… “blah blah blah” :-)
Anon,
Another musing for you about the positive thoughts thing. I think the mind is a better servant by focusing on creating desired outcomes rather than a random positive thought generator.
Thinking should be largely creative, purposeful and practical and the joy of life left largely to be-ing or not-thinking.
Hi anon, James again.
Mike has followed on from your reply and I would definitely agree with him about the whole ‘positive’ thought thing.
Don’t get me wrong, being grateful for what you have in life is a great habit to be in. But you’re using positive thoughts almost like ammo, firing them off at the negative stuff and hoping it’ll cancel them out.
I agree with Mike. I don’t think that approach will win out for you in the long run because it implies there’s a battle between your ‘light’ thoughts and ‘dark’ thoughts. With you fighting on the ‘light’ side. :)
What you’re aiming for is NO thought. That doesn’t mean walking around like a zombie of course :) It just means that you have control over what you think about, it’s your decision what’s going on your head.
My ‘reset’ technique was what eventually allowed me to clear my head and take back complete control of my thoughts.
When I say ’start again from zero’ I’m talking about deliberately clearing your mind of all thoughts. This is tricky at first, but if you can do it for several seconds, take a moment to enjoy the stillness. Just ‘be’ in that place, be ‘present’ with nothing else distracting your head… Nice isn’t it? :)
It’ll get easier to do.
If you feel like it’s even too much to still your mind completely, even for a few seconeds, try tucking yourself away into a room somewhere and just sit and watch your thoughts for 5 or 10 minutes.
Don’t ‘move into’ your thoughs, don’t ‘become’ them. Just watch. Be aware that there is ‘you’ and ‘your thoughts’ — 2 things.
You’re separate from your thoughts, so you know they no longer have direct control over you. Because you can CHOOSE. If you’re happy to keep doing that, you can start inserting bigger and bigger gaps between thoughts.
Once you have the power back, you can choose your thoughts and choose whether or not to give attention to thoughts that arise on their own.
Remember — thoughts only EVER have power when you feed them attention. Thoughts have ZERO power without your attention.
~ James
You say that I’m almost using positive thoughts as ammo.. It just feels a bit hard because I like being able to think about her. Just currently the negative thoughts are attacking those good thoughts. I’m really getting wound up in my head today. It could have been just today, but I was feeling better about the whole situation until X, my best mate and his girlfriend, and some family friends came around. It was just really hard to concentrate and stay with no thoughts because my mind was latching onto things as they happened.
I guess something I’m really struggling with is the truth. I’m constantly having to remind myself that what I’m thinking isn’t the truth at all. I’ve broken up with X two times, and we still got back together. I’ve also been having such bad thoughts about other people. Before I got in such an overanalytical state of mind, I never had any of these. It’s just the strength of thoughts is so powerful it’s making me confused over what is, and what isn’t the truth. You know the expression - truth hurts? I’m just getting these horrid ‘what if’s’ over whether what I’m thinking is true, and that to get over it I need to severe ties. It’s just so painful having this run through my head. It’s just really hurting my heart. I can have a really great day with her, with few thoughts and then BAM, another day comes along where I’ve got a lot of negative thoughts and I just latch onto them.
I just need to know basically, that what’s in my mind isn’t the truth. That it’s just a distortion of the truth based on my overanalysing thoughts. Part of me really fears it is all true. I really fear that. And it’s hurting so much because I just want to go back to a month or two ago when everything was perfect. Like I know it’s possible to lose feelings for someone - but I’ve broken up with X twice.. and we still got back together. That’s got to count for something right? As well as the negative thoughts for other people. It’s got to mean it’s not the truth..
That paragraph I just wrote is what I’m going over every single day. It’s hard to just let it go.. Because it hurts me so much. I keep telling myself/my heart keeps telling me that I know I want to be with X, and these thoughts are just garbage. It’s just really distorting things right now. I’m really scared that it’s going to consume me and I won’t feel anything for her anymore. Because at the moment, I’m constantly having to tell myself I do feel for her. That I do want to be her BF.
I just GAHHHHHHHHH. This is so unbelivably torturous.
I just feel so hopeless. I can feel the thoughts telling me to break it off..
Fuck
At the moment, I’m telling myself things like - remember back at so-and-so’s party. You can have that again. Because you know thats true. I don’t want to dwell on the past too much, but it’s nice to have a goal I want to aim for. I really just want to enjoy every little moment, and not let my mind wander. I failed at that to some extent today. And it’s sorta put me back abit. It’s almost like.. backing up what the thoughts are saying.
Would you say that once these negative thoughts are gone, I’ll be able to see more clearly of the truth. The real truth. The truth that me and X are to be together. It’s just funny how one little thought can escalate into so much. And it’s also funny how you can have such a good experience one day, and then a completely opposite one the next.
Hi Anon,
Hmmmm things are a little clearer now you’re talking specifics. From what you said before, it seems you know what you want — to be with x. That’s what’s in your heart.
What a choice to have between 2 great things — being with x or partying with whoever you like. Is this the main dilemma for you? That you’ll lose out?
Of course you can’t have both, that wouldn’t be fair to x so you have to choose.
Why not just see how it goes? You’re not committed for life or anything. Why not just say I’m going to be with x and I’ll think about it again in the new year.
Then once you have made you decision, any thoughts can be measured to that. Thoughts not in alignment with your choice will soon die away if you are committed to you decision.
Seems you are giving you mind mixed messages because you haven’t made a choice.
Sometimes, if with have 2 options it can be really hard :-) I think the hardest choices are the 50/50 ones. The ones where they have equal weight.
But anyway, seems to me you want x. Commit to that and you’ll see all this other stuff go away.
Also, there is such a thing as paralysis by analysis. Making a decision will often throw things into a new light.
If you can’t choose, imagine I said you can only have x and not be with other girls for 6 months at least. How do you feel about that?
Now, what if I said you can’t have x — you can party and be with whoever. How do you feel about that?
Compare the feelings of each question and maybe you’ll get a clearer answer.
Also, maybe if you’re stressing with exams, you feel overloaded and therefore want to end a relationship which you feel is more than you can handle? I don’t know about that one but maybe it’s a possibility in your case.
The other thing is — sometimes it’s ok to be confused. At the moment you’re with x… why upset the status quo until you are clear you want something else?
Relax, it’s ok to not know what you want sometimes. It’s ok to be confused.
Make a solid decision… see what happens.
I don’t want to party out with other girls. I just want X. I just want to go back to a month ago and fix this. I can’t stand feeling guilty and comparing at every single thought.
My god I can’t do this anymore. Like this. It’s too much of a struggle.
Oh your problem is now very easy and simple
Anything thought that does not align with your choice… ignore it. BE QUICK about it.
You are currently dwelling and as you say that escalates it.
ohhhhh I feel so light and relieved. I understand you fully now I think.
This is simple for you anon.
If it’s so simple and easy why can’t I do it? I’m pathetic.
I have one goal.. that’s to be with X without these thoughts. And currently the negative ones are attacking constantly things about our relationship and her as well obviously. It hurts so much. I’m glad I didn’t do anything stupid on the highway before. I can’t believe how close I was..
I just can’t see a way out at the moment. I feel so pathetic and weak.
Hmmm sorry, shouldn’t have said easy… but it is simple :-) I was just so relieved because I wasn’t clear that you were so clear about what you wanted.
Now I know you are, it is very simple. NOT easy (at first) but very simple.
Remember James said earlier “Thoughts have ZERO power without you attention.”
So you are free now to not believe these thoughts. No, they aren’t true. I wasn’t clear on that before because I didn’t have enough detail to go on.
When an unwanted thought comes you can trample it as you said. Don’t get into these endless toing and froing debates. It’s simpler than that.
What do you do if someone is talking and you don’t want to listen? You stick your fingers in your ears and say “arrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh” and drown it out. You can do that with these thoughts.
Don’t let them into your mental space. You can drown them out with “blah, blah, blah.” or whatever.
Don’t engage or analyse at ALL.
You need to be 100% clear about this. NO ATTENTION whatsoever to unwanted thoughts. Drown them out, whatever you want just NO ATTENTION.
You’ll be amazed how quickly this can go away once you’re clear abou the process.
Don’t despair anon. OK? This will be ok.
I hope so. I just need this to go away. This is really affecting me, especially today. Like I haven’t felt this low in a long long time.
I’m just making links between things and it’s so frustrating. And also comparing other girls with X. It hurts so much. My god
Is a way to combat the feeling about other girls.. just to say ‘I don’t need that thought and that sure there are girls who are more attractive than X, but what me and X have is so special and unique that she is all I need’? Is that something I should be saying?
I’m having so much trouble ignoring at the moment. Gahhhh
Yes, I think it’s good to get clear. And I totally agree with what you said there — that it doesn’t matter how attractive other girls are.
But you don’t need to repeat the process once you’re clear.
You could see an attractive girls and think “wow, she’s gorgeous, and move on.” No harm in that. But to continue a line of thought related to that thought isn’t needed.
Let stuff come and go and choose to pay attention or not.
I think for now you should keep it really simple to get some sanity back.
No attention to any thought relating to this subject. Keep it nice and simple. Say for a week or two weeks. No mental discussion on any thought relating to this subject.
Thoughts will still come up because you have given this some momentum but it will naturally subside when you stop paying attention.
You have to be totally clear about what I just said — what you need to do — the process.
Are you 100% clear?
I know the process, it’s just so incredibly difficult to keep myself distracted at the moment.
I know the thoughts aren’t real but they appear so important..
Yes they can appear important — I suspect because you’ve given them a sense of importance when all this started.
You mind thinks it’s helping you by reminding you of what you told it was important!
Do the opposite when these thoughts come — give them a sense of no importance. “oh that’s just the old problem — nothing to worry about.”
Don’t have to keep saying that — just attach the attitude.
If you are in a place where you’re totally enmeshed and can’t see a way out, then just scream mentally “arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh”
Then listen to see if it’s gone quiet.
If not.. “arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhhhh”
again.
Make it quiet.
Then… deal with stuff as it comes up.
If a thought comes that is to do with this subject — attach no importance and ignore QUICKLY.
It’s a simple process. Get really clear about the process and just do it.
oh… you don’t have to keep yourself distracted. That is supression. You are tying to “hold it down.” That feeds it.
You make it quiet and relax.
Then you deal with stuff AS IT COMES.
I want you to be clear…
Blocking, tramping, ignoring, drowning out is ok.
Not supression… don’t hold it down because that needs your attention… you automatically hold onto the part you are holding down. If that makes sense?
another point of clarity…
As I said you deal with stuff as it comes BUT you don’t watch for it coming.
Just get on with your life.
when you become aware of an unwanted thought, you can then instantly recognize it as unwanted and ignore it immediately.
Hope that’s clear :-)
yet another point of clarity… sorry :-)
The method… ignore or drown out depends on the ugrency and intensity of the thought.
As things settle… ignoring is all you need.
But where you are now may need something more… scream, block, trample… don’t let these thoughts into you mental space once you become aware of them.
Anon,
Because we’ve had quite a long chat about your situation, I re-read it all this morning to make sure there were no “muddy waters” or points of confusion.
I noticed a couple of issues…
You said you tell your mind “Don’t think about other girls.” Your mind doesn’t hear “don’t” it only hears “think about other girls” so that’s a biggie you need to be aware of.
The other bit of mud was I agreed that watching with no judgement is the perfect plan. Watching is great of course and not judging in the sense that you accept that “this is the thought that arrived.”
There still needs to be choice in whether you pay more attention or not.
Just wanted to clear these points up.
Not heard from you for a day or two. I really hope everything is ok.
Mike.
Hi there. Things are getting a bit better. Yesterday I had the best day I’ve had since I began getting these thoughts. I took X out and we had a really lovely day shopping and whatnot.
I talked to my counsellor the day before in order to combat these negative thoughts. Ignoring seems a bit hard, so it made it seem a bit easier and clearer to me to do the complete opposite of what the negative thoughts are telling me to do. I.e. recently I’ve been putting X under the microscope in terms of looks. So my counsellor said in order for the thought of that to go away - I refuse to look at that particular part of the body - full stop. Not just X’s. Because that way, it gets no attention and eventually will subside. It’s really ridiculous in the nature of these thoughts, as I analyse things which I never ever made note of before. I know they aren’t real. It’s just my state of mind, and as long as I ignore it, my mind will eventually go back to normal where her body never bothered me in the slightest. In fact, I thought it was amazingly hot haha. I still do, but with negative thoughts in the way it’s very frustrating.
I think where I’m really falling over; is my ability to ignore thoughts. Today for example, I thought a bad thought - one which I never wnated to enter my mind. It popped up; got me down 10 minutes, then it subsided. I’v had a few of these today which are unwanted and have no truth to them. My main problem is, I’ll sit down after all this in a quiet spot.. and I’ll almost disect the thought’s from earlier. Whilst I can shut them out in the short term I find it very hard to distract myself several hours later. I find this happens, particulary when I am at home.
Hi Anon,
It’s really a great sign that you had your “best day since it all began.”
That means what you’re doing is making a difference so keep doing it and it will eventually go away.
I also think it’s wonderful how you’re dealing with all this — seeing your councellor, taking advice, being proactive. It’s really wonderful.
I had actually planned to mention to you, something similar to what your councellor has said — the strategy to ignore a body part for example. This is basically a pact, or decision you make about what thoughts are allowed and what are not.
In my friends case for example, we identified 3 allowable thoughts and the other hundreds of disfunctional thoughts were not allowed i.e. to be ignored. This makes it very quick and simple when a thought comes — if it’s not one of the 3 allowed thoughts then distract and reshape.
I don’t want to muddy the waters anymore for you because you seem to understand what needs to be done BUT…
Earlier you said you wanted a step by step plan. Well I can’t believe I didn’t think of this, but the perfect plan is actually in my eBook Habit Guide, which I will happily let you have free-of-charge.
It’s 7 steps laid out as a flowchart that shows you how to NOT do something. In your case, stop thinking negative thoughts. It’s the perfect process. You could even print it and discuss it with your councellor.
It would help you get really clear. But as I said, seems like you are already getting on top so it’s up to you of course.
I will happily talk you through each step privately by email. Let me know if you’d like to do this.
The fact that you thought x was so hot, and still do I think is great for showing these negative thoughts for what they are. And that’s going to help you let go of them.
I’m really happy you had your best day! Do keep in touch at least to say you’re ok, because otherwise I get concerned :-)
Mike
Oh yes I forgot… the quiet times and dissecting thoughts. You nedd a simple meditation technique — a focus. Talk it through with you councellor to see what s/he recommends. Zen breath counting is probably the simplest.
You need a focus or you have no anchor — no frame of reference and then you’re basically drifting or floating around.
Hi there Mike.
I’m in a bad way at the moment and I’ve lost some of the progress I made on Tuesday. Basically the thoughts came piling down on me, and made me feel that I couldn’t be with X anymore. It almost made me break up with her. I spoke my mind, telling her that I was getting this immense doubt, like which had happened before. She didn’t take it too well; and during our conversation I almost gave in to the thoughts. She said to call her when I knew what was in my mind. I rung her around an hour later after some thought - because I felt so horrible inside that I had ruined everything and that I may have lost her. I asked her to give me another chance - which she did - but she told me it’s my last one, for the moment. She told me earlier yesterday that she doesn’t think I’m well enough for a relationship, and that it was easier being best friends. She also said that she felt sad that to be her I need a counsellor..
At the moment, the false and negative thoughts are really clouding my view of whether I want to be with her or not. It’s making me think they are true. They are really intense at the moment and it’s really difficult. I keep thinking about them because I think they may have some truth to them. Sure, being best friends with her would have some benefits; but I don’t wanna stop being bf/gf. It’s really paining my mind at the moment; I need this to go. I’ve tried to ignore it but it’s continuously getting stronger. I guess breaking it off seems like my only route of escape. But I’ve tried it twice already, and the thoughts still linger around.. and also I still had the strong feelings for her.
I need to know these thoughts aren’t true and that they have no basis of truth. I need that reassurance that they aren’t true. They just are so strong at the moment, i feel so hopeless
Hi Anon,
I think you need to let go of the whole problem. You said you wanted to “get back” to the time before all this. Well at the time you didn’t have all this mental toing and froing. The thoughts weren’t there. In other words you have to forget there is even a problem.
You’ve created some momentum with these thoughts so they will continue a while but you just have to ignore them.
You gotta get tough with your own mind! Yes or no to thoughts.
Be very firm when you need to be. Imagine you mind is like an out-of-control toddler. Once you make a decision, you follow through no matter how much it “kicks and screams.”
Decide to be with x for the next month with no thinking about it. Then after one month you will review it.
Let it all go. Forget there is a problem.
If thoughts try to come in that go against that decision, BE FIRM say NO and give them NO ATTENTION.
Look to your heart for answers not your thoughts. Thoughts never have the truth because they are abstractions of life. They are conditioned by your past thoughts.
If the thoughts are powerfully demanding your attention, drown them out by mentally screaming, saying “shhhhhh” or “blah blah” or even singing.
I feel sad for x too. She must love you a lot. It can’t be nice to be told “I’m not sure whether I want to be with you.”
Really — make a decision. One month. No thoughts, then a review after a month.
Follow through with your decision mentally. Don’t allow these thoughts attention. Say NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO when they come up but don’t watch for them coming.
When I say look to you heart — I mean put your attention there! And feel it. Learn to listen to what your heart is saying. Do it a lot. Move attention away from your head and thinking and into your heart. Make it a habit.
Thoughts aren’t true.
Make a solid decision to stop this and follow through with committment. Be clear about the “rules.” and enforce them.
Hi Anon,
I chatted with Mike this morning and I remember a little more info on my ‘reset’ technique.
I remembered that part of the ‘reset’ thing I did was that I would also then install how I wanted to be.
So for me it would be something like: ‘Right, reset, start again from here… I’m happy, confident and I don’t worry about what everyone else thinks’ or words to that effect.
You see my personal problem was a lack of confidence and worrying about what other people thought of me WAY too much.
This technique of stating your desired state as ‘current’ is actually part of Habit Guide itself. No surprises there — Mike knows what works ~ he’s bang on. :)
(by the way I would DEFINITELY take him up on his offer of a free Habit Guide, it could be the best thing you ever did ~ seriously)
It may sound goofy, but that technique really does work if you keep using it.
I saw it as ‘fake it til I make it’ at the time. I eventually became the person I told myself I was. Took a while of course but I was always moving forward.
This is the power of habit and conditioning! It’s massive.
So your equivalent, when overwhelmed with thoughts would be something like…
‘Ok, relax… reset… start again from here (here you deliberately try to clear your mind as best you can).
Then… ‘I’m happy, confident and in control. I love X and I’m blessed to be with her, every day.’ (then try to just sit with that feeling for a few seconds, enjoy it…)
Keep the statement to ONLY a description of how you WANT to be — no negatives. And important — state it in the present tense ~ you already have it. eg. ‘I’m happy’, not ‘I want to be happy’.
Again, I know it sounds a little goofy but if you keep doing this you’ll find you can stay as the person you want to be longer and longer each time.
Each time you get the unwanted thoughts, reset and re-state how you want to be as ‘current’.
~ James
Thanks to both of you. It turned out that my little outburst of letting the thoughts in was just a temporary thing. We had an wonderful day the day after. Almost as good as the Tuesday. I find it really good when I’m with her, but when we’re not together it’s a lot easier for thoughts to enter into my mind.
I’ve had like a really really stupid thought - like I’m into modifying cars. I’m not sure if you know what a sleeper is .. but basically it’s a car that looks fairly stock and nothing out of the ordinary on the outside.. but under the bonnet it possesses mass amounts of power. I’m planning to build a sleeper over the next few years; just a project I want to embark on. Recently it’s been really good to think about to get rid of thoughts; or distract myself. But today a thought popped up that my sleeper car is like synonomous with X. To simplify it.. my mind is saying that she is ugly or unappealing; like the sleeper.. It really is a ridiculous thoughts. I just want it to go, so I can still pursue my project and still be with X. I know you may laugh at this thought; I am too almost. It really is stupid. Any ideas?
Great. Laughing at the thought is great because you’re seeing it for what it is.
How you feel when you’re together is the truth of it. Seems like you’re really getting on top of this Anon and it’s wonderful to see.
What’s beneath the bonnet is the important thing no? Both for cars AND humans :-)
Hi there again guys.
Last week I was doing really well, but in the last few days things have just stuck around in my head abit. One thought which relaly annoyed me; was that I can’t remember what X looks like. Really stupid considering I see her just about every single day. I don’t know why but it really got stuck in my head. And when I looked at it, it was hard to see X’s face clearly in my head. You know when you know a person well - you can see their face very clearly in your head? It’s been harder lately to see her face. And I interpret that as something else. I hope this is making a bit of sense.. I think it’s just a combination of stress, tiredness and the thoughts. It’s really very strange to me. This was a couple of days ago now, but it’s just come back into my head. So to combat it I’ve been constantly looking at pictures of her etc. I’m really confused why my brain is acting up like this. I can’t remember entirely how my brain saw her before this thought popped up. It’s incredibly frustrating.
Hope you can shed some light on this. Thanks
And another frustrating thought came in relating to not knowing what X sounds like. Like her voice. This is incredibly annoying. The problem is I don’t know what to do. Like I don’t have anything strong to combat it with.
Hi anon,
I´m away at the moment. I´ve only got very limited computer access at the hotel. I´ll be back on the 16th so I´ll be in touch then.
Cheers
Mike
Hi Anon,
How are things? I’m back now and settling into normality again :-)
A friend of mine recently mentioned the same thing as you funnily enough — that he couldn’t remember the face of someone very close to him.
It doesn’t mean anything — that you can’t recall the face or sound of X when you’re apart from her.
You’re right that the stress and tiredness is affecting all this. We mentioned it before. It’s massive!
By the way — what’s the situation with the exams? Are you finished with them now?
Things would be a lot better if I lost this thought. I’ve been very up and down with it. Would you say the reason it continues to linger around is because she’s been clouded by my over analysing and by my putting her under the microscope? That’s what my counsellor said of it. The negative thoughts intepreted my not imagining her perfectly as though I was a bad boyfriend or that I didn’t like her or whatever. Very stupid. I just feel that if I lose this thought and/or am able to imagine her the way I want I will be invincible against every other negative thought. This is one which is hard to combat. Thoughts?
Hi Anon,
Remember the advice of your counselor a while back — to practice mindfulness? You actually said it helped you a lot too. You need to do more of that and “let go” of all this other stuff — the constant analyzing.
What you think about anything is not the truth but an abstraction. By constantly feeding a conceptual abstraction of life, you can more and more live in that “dream.”
The dream becomes more complex and more difficult to escape from the more you feed it.
Underlying all this is your belief that thinking will give you answers and give you control.
I used to believe that too. I was a “walking head” and all my attention was in my head. You need meditation and mindfulness to combat this dysfunctional habit.
I am not really good at visualizing people close to me at will. I don’t attach any importance to that whatsoever and neither should you.
There is nothing you need to hold on to, to make your relationship with X work out. Playing mental games like this or any other kind of mental abstractions will not improve your relationship or give you valuable information about it.
As I said in the article, you need space between “you” and thoughts. Ideally that space should always be there although in practical terms, that’s difficult to achieve ALL the time.
But do your best… “what am i feeling and thinking right now” is a good question that creates that space.
Observe thoughts and feelings from a distance.
Thoughts have no truth. They are information… some is useful, most is garbage if you’re anything like me. You need discrimination to sift the useful from the garbage. Don’t feed the garbage with more attention.
Keep your inner space quiet and see what thoughts come on their own and then apply discrimination as to whether to feed any thought with more attention or not.
Attention is your power and you can choose where to put it.
Get out of the madness that is constantly feeding a conceptual world view, relax, be very quiet and see what thoughts come up on there own, one by one.
This alone will improve your life about a million percent.
Thinking should always be a choice — not constant and not automatic. There is more information and better information in silence… strangely enough.
Mike
Thanks once again Mike for a very lengthly and helpful response. I know before you said imagining someone at will is difficult for you - but sometimes I try and remember X’s face about 20 minutes after I see her and it’s like trying to cup water in my hands. The longer I go without seeing her it gets harder and harder. Even though I have plenty of photos my minds keeps telling me I have to imagine her perfectly in my head, or at least her face, with no assistance. I’m worried this is going to become part of me, even though I’ve gotten past it before.
Would you say it’s harder for me to imagine her the way I want because of my overanalytical thoughts which have clouded her?
Thanks once more.
Hi Anon,
I would let go of this thought — that you have to be able to imagine X perfectly in your mind. It means nothing whether you can do it or not.
What meaning do you think it has I wonder?
No, I don’t think the over analysis has anything to do with your ability to visualize a face. If you really want to do it, keep practicing.
But I suggest you forget all about the idea that your ability to do this means anything.
Same method — thought arrives, ignore thought, let it go and pay attention to something else. Repeat if necessary.
Mike.
Hi again Mike, it’s Anon.
For the last month or so, I’ve still been troubled with unwanted thoughts. I don’t have the time to write about my technique, but it’s not so simple as just ignore. Unforuntately I’ve been sort of looking at the thought, and dismissing it as quick as possible by giving a list of reasons why it’s not true.
Also for the last 3 weeks I’ve been away on holiday, without X. I’ve been able to contact X and we did every day throughout the time period. The first week was probably the best week I’ve had a while - on schoolies with some good mates. The next week after that began to get really tedious and for the last couple of nights my thoughts became really unbearable. I saw X yesterday and we had a lovely time. However I kept getting soem unwanted thoughts, and one ridiculous one is that I don’t love her anymore. It’s incredibly frustrating and what’s more frustrating is that my brain is considering that thought. I hate going through the paces of it, and it’s been very hard to distract myself from. Would you say it’s just an issue of not seeing X for so long? Just an issue of time and space? Because it’s Christmas we won’t be seeing eachother on such a day to day basis. I see her all day tomorrow but I keep getting this thoughts lingering along, amongst others; but they are easier to deal with. I’m so so tired of this.
Hope you can reassure me. Thank you. I can understand if it’s hard to write back over Christmas. As soon as, would be terrific.
Cheers
Hi Anon,
Seems to me that in the first week, when you were having a great time, you weren’t troubled by unwanted thoughts. You were distracted, not even aware there was a problem.
Then when things started to get tedious, the thoughts came back.
For this to go away, you have to forget there is a problem at all, or to put it better, there has to be no problem.
You make it into a problem when you feed it with your attention and start mental discussions about it.
If a thought comes that’s unwanted and not true… so what? As soon as you recognize that, just shift your attention onto something else. Let it go. Imagine it floating away inside a balloon or use some other mental imagery–clouds, whatever.
When you completely let a thought go, you are not aware of it anymore. Don’t keep even a tiny bit of your attention on it… look for it, discuss if it’s important or hold it down… like that first week… it’s just not there, in other words, your attention is onto other things, there is no problem.
Time and space? Irrelevant… more unwanted attention feeding this “problem.”
Thanks again for such a speedy reply.
Also there’s another thought - well a decision I guess, which Ineed your advice on. I saw X yesterday and for the last month or so she’s been complaining about her weight. It’s never been an issue for me as I love her body. She’s actualyl very skinny apart from a bit of baby fat on her belly. Unfortunately her talking about it sort of got it inside my head.
The thing is - I’ve been wanting to get more toned as well considering I’ve put on a bit of holiday weight. Would it have a negative impact, and feed the thought - if I asked her if she wants to exercise together for an hour everyday? I’m worried doing this may feed the thought. Thanks once more.
Note also she has gained a bit of weight over the holiday - as I have - but it’s never bothered me. I just want her to feel happy in her skin.
And when I say ‘a bit’ - it’s minimal.
I don’t know if it’s the unwanted thought which is making the exaggeration… Or.. I don’t know. I hope I make some sense.
Working out together sounds like a great idea.
That’s an idea that’s good to give more attention to :-)
It’s about choice. You can always choose in the moment…. “more attention on this or not.”
I know I can attention. It’s just my negative mindset exaggerates things. And I also have just that concern that my mind will exaggerate her weight. And I want to love her for her and not change her just because I have a thought.
I’ve just been deciding over this, thats all.
Hi Anon,
It’s important to always get back to “no thought.” Otherwise you are adrift so to speak, with no mental frame of reference.
Most people are constantly feeding and generating so many thoughts that it creates a false sense of identity.
To know the truth about something you don’t always have to think an answer. You can sense it will your higher intuition. That’s the “you” that knows all this other stuff is rubbish.
But you are still not fully disentangled. So keep to your center as much as possible–in other words keep going back to a clear mental space with no thoughts. Then you can see what comes up one at a time.
Does that make sense?
You always seem to know what you want :-) in this case, for her weight to be a non-issue. So pay no attention to it.
If she talks about fine, reassure her, it might be what she’s seeking from you.
The working out thing is still a good idea :-)
What you said seems to explain what I was talking about before in relation to loving her. I’ve been constantly thinking and trying to combat it with other thoughts and I get mixed up in the mess.
Thank you again for some great advice.
You know when you love someone. That knowing has nothing to do with thinking. You just sense it in your being.
You’re welcome Anon. Give yourself a break from thinking :-)
Hi there Mike
Stumbled upon your site in a moment of desperation i guess. i’ve been suffering from unwanted thoughts for quite some time now. it all really kicked off after the one year anniversary of the death of my friend in a car crash. that was nearly two years ago. i’ve had good days and bad days. in the beginning it was hell. my mind focused on the thing i loved most in the world and became hell bent on ruining it for me. Like anon i began to doubt if i loved my girlfriend. i hated the thoughts, i knew they where false and that there was no substance to them but they wouldnt go away. i adore my girlfriend but my mind began to focus on all her flaws and use these as proof that i didnt in fact love her at all. Everytime a petty girl smiled at me my mind would target that as an excuse as to why i no longer loved her. It nearly drove me to ruin. While i have convinced myself that these thoughts are unsubstantiated they are still always niggling in the back of my mind waiting to resurface again. The bad thing is that my unwanted thoughts took on a far more sinister approach and pretty soon i was subconciously trying to convince myself that i was entirely capable of commiting every henious act under the sun. Murder, rape, paedophelia, incest, debauchery.. you name it my mind tried to convince me i could do it. With these thoughts came panic attacks and anxiety. As you can imagine this was complete hell for me. I am a devote catholic and have been raised by an amazing family. We are a tight nit group so i have never experienced a troubled home. Therefore i cant justify why i am having these thoughts. lately it has not been so bad. they come and go and through prayer and defiance i have learned to deal with them. The thing is i had a “bad” night tonight where having watched a murder mystery show my the violent thoughts crep back into my head. I’m just fed up. I can’t go on pretending the thoughts are not there because they are. I start to scrutinize every single emotion i am feeling as if to see if the thoughts are true. These thoughts have been crippling for me, especially the ones of a more evil and ugly nature. As i write this now i am “myself” so to speak. i am clear in my mind and beliefs. but the minute i stop or in a couple of days the thoughts will resurface and the pinful process wil begin all over again…
Sorry for the lengthy comment… this is the first real time i’ve completely opened up on all of this. i’v spoken to family and friends but not to this extent. anyway thanks for listening and i’d be interested to see what you think
:)
Hi there “Acm”
I’m so glad you did open up and write in. I love the fact that we can connect, that you have an outlet for your pain and that maybe other folks can read your story and perhaps not feel so alone.
These are taboo subjects… thoughts of murder and rape and so on so I’m happy that you can talk about them here, anonymously.
It’s very disturbing, to have these dark thoughts “in us” and to feel we are maybe evil, bad, even capable of such things.
I feel relieved that like some other commenters, you are at least partially aware of your thoughts and not totally identified with them.
“You,” the writer of the comment, the connection you felt when writing it are able to distinguish the thoughts as “not you,” as content of your mind–albeit unpleasant and disturbing content.
Seeing the thoughts and “not you” is a vital first step but you need other tools to stop them arising.
Seeing the thoughts as “not important” is the next step. When they arise, as they will continue to do for a little while, shrug them off and give them no more attention.
You don’t need to examine why they are there. It’s enough to know that they are “not you,” they are conditioned by your past and your attention and giving them a quality of importance.
You don’t need to DO anything on a continuous basis. You don’t need to look out for them or hold them down or have mental conversations about them or worry if they will show up.
When they DO show up, attach a quality of “no importance” and put your attention onto something else. That is the simple method for removing all unwanted thoughts.
These thoughts have momentum because you’ve given a lot of attention to them in the past. You told your brain that they were important so you can reverse it by doing the opposite.
If the thoughts “insist” you pay attention then you INSIST on paying attention to something else. This is tough at first but it gets easier as you go. The “something else” can be anything but best to keep it simple and choose an external focus. Rivet your attention onto an external object.
I’m sorry for the loss of your friend. I’ve found it helpful to think of my losses as gains. You actually gained your friend for all those years you were close and all those great times and close connections were actually a gift no? Yes it ended but you still gained the wonderful experience of that person for all those years. It’s a different way of looking at loss that maybe could help you? It can help to feel gratitude for the gift of that person in your life although it may have been only a few years.
Like I said in the article, meditation is the ultimate therapy because your success at using the “simple method” depends upon your ability to see the thoughts as “not you” and also the ability to choose the focus of your attention.
It’s not easy to see how enslaved we are by our own thoughts until we actually attempt to meditate.
Meditation is the most wonderful process and has benefits that are really hard to put into words but it enables you to see thoughts for what they are and gives you freedom of choice. Your sense of identity also shifts from content–the quality and types of thoughts you have to the awareness behind the content–the real and true you. The more you practice, the more your sense of identity shifts into the real you, the more peace you have, the more joy and love comes into your life, the more choice you have.
Also, I would say that the quality your thoughts is affected by every aspect of your life–the movies you watch–which trigger old thought patterns, to your diet, exercise and sleep habits.
All these and more powerfully affects the quality of your thoughts.
To have more happy thoughts, create a happy inner biochemistry by leveraging the powerful lifestyle habits.
Ok, I best not ramble on too much but I’m happy to discuss any aspect of stopping this awful experience you’ve been having for too many years now. Btw my friend in the article is pretty much cured. The gaps between bad times are months apart now and he only triggers the old pattern because he forgets just how bad it is to go there! He is effectively cured–and he was very very lost.
I hope this, and the article and comments give you a booster and a good start in turning all this around.
Please let me know if you need clarification about any aspect of the simple method for getting rid of unwanted thoughts, or if I can help you in any way.
God bless
Mike.
p.s. I find “passage mediation” the most effective because the feedback mechanism is so clear. Pick your favorite prayer or scripture and repeat it slowly, in a meditation setting, one word at a time, like pebbles plopping into water.
p.p.s. Do you have local support? A friend, relative or counselor who can help you if things get tough? It concerns me to think of you coping with all this on your own.
Thanks for the response mike it has really helped to put my mind at ease. For the most part i have tried to handle it on my own. I’m only 22 but i’ve always felt like i’ve had an old soul in a young man’s body :P I suppose i was afraid of what people would think of me if i told anyone, i had become ashamed of myself for even allowing myself to be so affected by these thoughts. I saw myself as having become weak and hated myself for it. I have someone to talk to now if it really gets bad but i haven’t needed him in a while. I found discovering websites such as this really helped me. They made me become aware to the fact that i wasn’t alone in my suffering and this was such a comforting thing to know. I feel as if i am on the path to recovery now. I never doubted for a second that these thoughts were not me and that i could become what my mind was trying to tell me i could become. Even at the darkest moments i knew that the voice in my head wasn’t the “real” me, but it really wares you out and brings you down to constantly have to battle with your own mind day in and day out. After all our minds are our last strongholds of defense against a crazy world. If we lose control over this then where will we be? i always figured that my condition was just a more advanced form of OCD that i used to suffer from as a child. It was never at the needing medication stage but i would obsess about being clean and also used to have a fixation with counting to the number 3 (rainman eat your heart out!) This went away and for many years i was perfectly oblivious to any form of mental struggle. I can only reason then that the depression that was caused as a result of the loss of my friend triggered this long lost form of OCD in my mind and then i really went to town on it! i suppose the mistake i have made is that i have tried to confront these unwanted thoughts head on. I have tried to discover where they have originated from to see if i could then dispel them from my mind. Of course having now read your excellent article i realise that this may not have been the best course of action. having said that i strangely feel a lot mentally stronger for having done that. I now feel as if i am capable of beating these thoughts through the power of meditation even though it is something i have yet to try. it is however not a route that i would even wish on my worst enemies. It was a very dark and lonely path and a lot of soul searching was done. For a long time i didn’t even know who the “real” me was and that was the scariest time. when i didn’t know who the man looking back at me in the mirror was. but through the power of prayer and a sheer defiance and unwillingness to be beaten, i have made it this far and i feel as if i am now ready to take the next step and to cure myself. Thanks again for the lovely reply it was much needed and appreciated.
p.s That’s great news about your friend by the way, i am really delighted for him. Hopefully some day soon i can find myself in the same position. Thanks again Mike… :)
Hi again Acm,
Thanks for sharing more of your story. I really think it will help other people through their own dark times.
Ironically, and my friend couldn’t see this when he was constantly struggling with unwanted thoughts, this whole process forces you to become more conscious. And that means more aware, more established as the real you, more free.
It feels that you are cursed but when you’re out, you see that it was a blessing because it forced you to take control of thought and not be enslaved by it.
I dislike the label OCD because the attachment and identification with the label is unhelpful attention that prevents the letting go of it.
I also find that OCD sufferers tend to be very intelligent and sensitive people. They have a ferrari mind–powerful and difficult to control!! So their “burden” in life is greater but also their potential is greater.
Yes you do seem to have a wise head on very young shoulders :-)
I can see there is curiosity to find what caused all the trouble and I can see how you could feel relief to discover the cause but I really don’t think it’s required and the danger is that all the “soul searching” is feeding the “problem” with more attention.
The problem becomes like a entity that grows and grows and takes over more and more conscious attention. More and more conditioned thought forms attach to other thoughts and the monster grows and grows.
To take away the monsters power you have to remove your attention from it.
Incidentally I saw a documentary about a girl with schizophrenia a while back. I saw another label which implies a real disease, covering up what is in reality, a normal brain where the wiring has gone wrong–the programming. Trauma starting a process of “monster building.” Here the monster is a seperate identity that the real person talks to. The monster also “talks” to the person. But it’s one brain, one person. One being.
It’s really easy to create two identities in one brain. Make up an imaginary friend and start having converstions.
The fascinating thing is that the identity we think of as “who we are” is just as false as the made up identity of the schizophrenic. Our false self talks to us constantly and we allow it because we created it and believe in it–believe it is who we are.
Thanks again Acm. Keep in touch–I’d love to know how you get on over the coming weeks.
Mike.
Well if by relating my story i can in some little way help someone else than it wil all have been worth it. It really is a scary path to walk on your own but i feel like i have turned a corner just by coming onto this site and opening up like i have done. I can’t thank you enough for your replies mike they have been of unmeasurable comfort and help! it’s always reassuring to know one is not crazy :D I gave the meditation a try last night and i have to say that while it was tough to focus my mind on one thing it did work. i pictured myself mountain climbing up a very tall and dangerous mountain. For me the mountain symbolised my struggle, my unwanted thoughts that i was trying to overcome inch by inch, step by step. Some days you are walking along and it isn’t very difficult and these symbolised the good days, but then you’d suddenly hit a sheer cliff face or fall down a crevase and these days naturally symbolised the bad days when every second feels like an immense struggle and you have to crawl inch by painful inch until you reach the ledge or reemerge into the open. It may seem silly but this analogy really works for me. Whenever i feel an unwanted thought coming on i will picture myself on the bad day and i will try and recreate the entire scene in my head. The tiredness in my legs, the freezing wind blowing against my face and trying to knock me from my perch, the feel of the crimpon as i wedge it into the ice to try and pull myself up. Of course by doing all of this it naturally takes my mind away from the unwanted thoughts and i return to a calm frame of mind. i will also give the passage meditation a try as it sounds like a great idea. I will keep you posted on how i’m doing and hopefully i can look forward to an unwanted thought free mind in 2009! Happy new year Mike! Hope you have a great time tonight wherever you may be :)
Hi Acm,
That’s wonderful that you’re finding relief with your visualization. My only slight concern is that the analogy contains the problem albeit in a subtle and abstract form.
You are still seeing yourself with the problem if you see what I mean.
Any distraction that stops attention on the unwanted thought is going to mean you make rapid progress. But, I’m not sure the analogy would be my first choice.
The end state is “oblivious” as you put it. No thoughts or feelings to do with the unwanted thoughts. No awareness that there is, or was ever a problem.
That means removing all conscious attention.
The focus of your “re-direct” will quickly set up a new link between the arising old thought pattern and the new choice–especially when repeated over and over as you will be doing.
Pretty soon the link will operate automatically.
Having said all that, I definitely wouldn’t want to dampen your enthusiasm in any way. The main thing–the BIG stuff, is to keep you mind off the unwanted thoughts–removing ALL attention from them. That’s the main thing.
And of course, you’ve got to trust your own intuition on it and do what you think is best for you.
This is a small matter compared to removing attention from the unwanted thoughts.
Thanks for all the kind words :-). Keep up the good work!
Mike.
Thanks Mike
I see what you mean about the analogy i created. Anything that will lead me to keep reminding myself that i have unwanted thoughts can not be good in the long term. I suppose i’ll tweak my visual meditation to just picturing a place of calm and tranquility such as a lakeside or mountain top vista. The problem won’t be anywhere in the visualisation and the process of recreating the entire scene in my head will lead me to the state of calm that i desire. I’ll keep popping in and out to see how things are going and will keep you informed of my progress. You are an extraordinary man Mike Kinnaird. To dedicate so much of your time and effort and to give so much yet recieve nothing in return just so you can help complete and utter strangers through their dark times is work on par with any saint i’ve ever read about. And I genuinely mean that. What you do here cannot be praised highly enough. You saved me from the black holes in my mind and while i am far from 100% cured i can now look to the future with hope and optimism as opposed to despair and anxiety. I take my hat off to you. Keep up the good work and if ever our paths should cross i’ll gladly buy you a drink :)
A no longer confused man…
Hi Acm (a clear man :-)
Wow — Thank you for your amazing comment! I’m speechless (for once :-)
Yeah, I think the new plan is much better. I’m so looking forward to seeing how you get on!
Mike.